Unneccesery bad grammar and spelling at pianostreet

[mephisto]

Hello

I have to stress the word "unneccesery" in my topic titel. This is first and foremost directed at those users with english as their first language(especially those who are fully capable of writing proper english wich gives them A's on their english-papers, but still write like they have english as their 3rd language). People with english as their 3rd or 2nd language should just write as good as they are capable of.

First of all shouldn't it be expected that the first letter of every sentence should be spelled with a capital letter? This may seam of no importance but it makes every post you make look at lot more coherent and understandable. Not to mention one would think that if a person doesn't use capital letters the user will seam imature and childiss(i.e there would most likely be no reason to read his or her posts). There is nothing difficult about using capital letters, so there is no excuse not using them at all. I am tired of hearing about how little it matters etc, it matters a lot.

Then there are the question -  and exlamation marks. One should never use more than one of each. By using more than one you are not gaining more credibility. Actually you get the contrary effect. A post like; Oh my God are you like serious!!!!??!??!!!!!!!!!!!!. makes you and not the person you are directing your posts at look stupid. If absolutely neccesery you can always use this emoticon  .

Add to this that writing in normal Oxford english makes much more sense than writing in a childiss "chat-style" with mistakes everywhere. This is especially directed at those with english as their first language. Mistakes will happen, and I am sure that there are mistakes in this post. But at least I try to make as few as possible. This is all that is expected, trying to not make mistakes. If one doesn't know how to spell a word, and one spells it wrong it isn't a big problem(although one could always use a dictionary if one is interested in learning something new, but I am aware of the fact that this might take too much time), at least one makes a good effort.

Writing in a special or unique style out of friendly humour should by all means be written, and it makes this place much funnier. But if one is discussing politics or one is writing about the unique harmonies of Chopin, bad spelling and uneccesery exlamation marks will just ruin everything you try to write in your posts.

I am by no means trying to put foreward an offer to the administartor that he should remove posts by users who write bad english, but that everybody at this forum should write as good as they are capable of.

Look at the user "ahinton". He writes with almost no mistakes, and yet his posts are funny as well as interesting. And sometimes even he writes in certain slang to make a point. But at least he writes that way to make a point, instead of making himself look stupid. Take him as a good role-model for writing posts about serious issues(again I have to stress that in a topic created with humour as its most important feature, funny language in "dasdc" style or similar is fully appropriate).

Thank you.

[debussy symbolism]

Hello

I have to stress the word "uneccesery" in my topic titel. This is first and foremost directed at those users with english as their first language(especially those who are fully capable of writing proper english wich gives them A's on their english-papers, but still write like they have english as their 3rd language). People with english as their 3rd or 2nd language should just write as good as they are capable of.

First of all shouldn't it be expected that the first letter of every sentence should be spelled with a capital letter? This may seam of no importance but it makes every post you make look at lot more coherent and understandable. Not to mention one would think that if a person doesn't use capital letters the user will seam imature and childiss(i.e there would most likely be no reason to read his or her posts). There is nothing difficult about using capital letters, so there is no excuse not using them at all. I am tired of hearing about how little it matters etc, it matters a lot.

Then there are the question -  and exlamation marks. One should never use more than one of each. By using more than one you are not gaining more credibility. Actually you get the contrary effect. A post like; Oh my God are you like serious!!!!??!??!!!!!!!!!!!!. makes you and not the person you are directing your posts at look stupid. If absolutely neccesery you can always use this emoticon  .

Add to this that writing in normal Oxford english makes much more sense than writing in a childiss "chat-style" with mistakes everywhere. This is especially directed at those with english as their first language. Mistakes will happen, and I am sure that there are mistakes in this post. But at least I try to make as few as possible. This is all that is expected, trying to not make mistakes. If one doesn't know how to spell a word, and one spells it wrong it isn't a big problem(although one could always use a dictionary if one is interested in learning something new, but I am aware of the fact that this might take too much time), at least one makes a good effort.

Writing in a special or unique style out of friendly humour should by all means be written, and it makes this place much funnier. But if one is discussing politics or one is writing about the unique harmonies of Chopin, bad spelling and uneccesery exlamation marks will just ruin everything you try to write in your posts.

I am by no means trying to put foreward an offer to the administartor that he should remove posts by users who write bad english, but that everybody at this forum should write as good as they are capable of.

Look at the user "ahinton". He writes with almost no mistakes, and yet his posts are funny as well as interesting. And sometimes even he writes in certain slang to make a point. But at least he writes that way to make a point, instead of making himself look stupid. Take him as a good role-model for writing posts about serious issues(again I have to stress that in a topic created with humour as its most important feature, funny language in "dasdc" style or similar is fully appropriate).

Thank you.

Greetings

You make some interesting points. Well I think that most members here do have English as their secondary or even tertiary language, including myself(I speak another language aside English). However, this really isn't all the time apparent so it is hard to judge whether the person typing is native to English or not.

I too have noticed an almost complete absence of capital letters, proper punctuation, and such from some members. However, I am positive that some of those members are either American or speak English because of what they say about themselves which might divulge any information as to where they were raised, where they reside, etc. It is funny that the person with all the missing proper grammar that I mentioned above is the most vocal person so far on Piano Street. (No offense of course)

Concerning whether an inordinate amount of exclamation marks is important and whether other proper grammar factors are important, I think it is pretty much up to the writer to decide. If he or she sees that his posts are being ignored, he or she may wish to revise the grammar. I personally don't care how people address themselves on this forum as long as they convey their message properly and with relative coherence. If I would be reading a professional and even amateur essay I would of course be more likely to take the writer's grammar as a part of the judging. Improper and inconsiderate grammar most likely means that the writer isn't fully aware of all the facts and/or isn't really devoted to his subject.

Again, I do not care at how magnificent the sentence structure is. If it conveys nothing, it is equivalent to reading a pile of garble or one short sentence. Similarly, if a poorly developed sentence conveys an important message, then I would respect it more, that is, if the sentence is legible and the ambiguity level is relatively low...

This is the forum and not a college paper, so immaculate grammar isn't always necessary. It is nice to read sentences that are clear and "proper," but it is just as fun to read poor sentences that convey meaning.

[counterpoint]

Please change the thread title to:

Uneccesery bad grammar and spelling at pianostreet threadt    

[jlh]

Please change the thread title to:

Uneccesery bad grammar and spelling at pianostreet threadt    

Or just spell the title right: Unnecessary bad grammar and spelling at pianostreet 

   

[mcgillcomposer]

Or just spell the title right: Unnecessary bad grammar and spelling at pianostreet 

   

Touché jlh...touché...

[mephisto]

Or just spell the title right: Unnecessary bad grammar and spelling at pianostreet 

   

I will.

At least I tried to write it right, and I admited in my first post, that I was sure that there would be mistakes in  my post.

[wishful thinker]

I counted at least 24 spelling and syntax errors in your first post 

[mephisto]

Mistakes will happen, and I am sure that there are mistakes in this post. But at least I try to make as few as possible. This is all that is expected, trying to not make mistakes.

"wishful thinker" did you not read these 3 sentences?

To be honest I wasn't expecting 24 mistakes. Coul you please show them to me? I am always eager to learn how to improve my english 

[wishful thinker]

OK, in the spirit of being helpful 

"unneccesery"   unnecessary (2 occurrences)
titel   title
english   English (8 occurrences?)
wich   which
imature   immature
childiss(i.e   childish (2 occurences) (and there should be a space before the parenthesis)
exlamation   exclamation (2 occurrences)
neccesery   necessary
problem(   spacing again
foreward   forward
administartor   administrator
issues(again   spacing again
Oh my God are you like serious!!!!??!??!!!!!!!!!!!!.   should be in quotation marks

Your English is way better than my grasp of your language

[rach n bach]

Dude, are you like serious?

[wishful thinker]

I'm not really known for being serious 

But the subject was a rail against bad spelling etc.......

[mephisto]

OK, in the spirit of being helpful 

"unneccesery"   unnecessary (2 occurrences)
titel   title
english   English (8 occurrences?)
wich   which
imature   immature
childiss(i.e   childish (2 occurences) (and there should be a space before the parenthesis)
exlamation   exclamation (2 occurrences)
neccesery   necessary
problem(   spacing again
foreward   forward
administartor   administrator
issues(again   spacing again
Oh my God are you like serious!!!!??!??!!!!!!!!!!!!.   should be in quotation marks

Your English is way better than my grasp of your language

Thanks

[maul]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[elevateme_returns]

do we really have to use perfect grammar ? surely its the content of posts which is important. and even though the grammar in this post is not perfect, its perfect legible and can be easily understood. and the spelling is perfect.

[elevateme_returns]

i have just read the first post...   is this a joke?

[jlh]

ya I meen it's not like this posts is being graded or nothin... y not just read tha posts and judge them by there content?  gramer is overatted. so is speling.

[jlh]

May I just point out the irony in ranting about poor grammar and spelling on the forum by posting a topic in which there are many grammar and spelling errors?  Even the first word of the title was wrong.  Yes, you gave the disclaimer in your post, but even in doing that you seem to be far from any position in which you can rant about grammar and spelling.

[nicco]

May I just point out the irony in ranting about poor grammar and spelling on the forum by posting a topic in which there are many grammar and spelling errors?  Even the first word of the title was wrong.  Yes, you gave the disclaimer in your post, but even in doing that you seem to be far from any position in which you can rant about grammar and spelling.

I dont think spelling is the problem here. Its about some people who purposely choose to not write decent English even though they are perfectly capable to do so. Mephisto is norwegian, and doesent have a perfect grasp of the english language (just like myself), but i understand his point very well, and absolutely agree with him. Even though its "just a forum", we should try to follow some basic grammar when we write.

[thalbergmad]

But the subject was a rail against bad spelling etc.......

Bit off track old boy

Thal

[pianistimo]

they think it's bad grammar because it doesn't follow norwegian styles of grammar - where you say:  'ole, let's throw the cow over the fence some hay.'  i know this because there are a lot of norwegian people here.  they're all wierd.

[nicco]

Yeah, you're the one to talk.

[counterpoint]

they think it's bad grammar because it doesn't follow norwegian styles of grammar - where you say:  'ole, let's throw the cow over the fence some hay.' 

     ROFL

[mephisto]

May I just point out the irony in ranting about poor grammar and spelling on the forum by posting a topic in which there are many grammar and spelling errors?  Even the first word of the title was wrong.  Yes, you gave the disclaimer in your post, but even in doing that you seem to be far from any position in which you can rant about grammar and spelling.

It is not irony at all. You seam to lack a basic human facility: the facility to see things in more than black and white.

My post was not about random mistakes here and there. It was about TRYING to write as good as possible. I have never commented on any posts because of small typing-erros(writing know as no, is not a small typing-error). Everybody make mistakes, but shouldn't we try not to make them?

Not at any point have I said that my English is perfect. I even stated in my post that I was mostly writing for those of you with English and their 1st language. If you are unable to compehend this than I don't know what to think of you.

[mephisto]

From the forum rules:

The official language is English. As many members do not have English as their native language, please write in proper English and avoid slang. Use capitals, periods and commas to make your sentences clear. However, do not worry if you do not think your English is good enough - your intentions and thoughts will most likely be understood even if you make grammatical mistakes.

Could it be any clearer?

[retrouvailles]

they think it's bad grammar because it doesn't follow norwegian styles of grammar - where you say:  'ole, let's throw the cow over the fence some hay.'  i know this because there are a lot of norwegian people here.  they're all wierd.

Nope. That wasn't bigotry. Not one bit.

[jlh]

From the forum rules:

The official language is English. As many members do not have English as their native language, please write in proper English and avoid slang. Use capitals, periods and commas to make your sentences clear. However, do not worry if you do not think your English is good enough - your intentions and thoughts will most likely be understood even if you make grammatical mistakes.

Could it be any clearer?

I understand the rules of the forum.  I just don't see the point in making a big deal of it if that's already stated in the rules...  the fact that you are bringing it up while English is not your native language seems to be about as useful as a horn player giving a piano masterclass and complaining about wrong notes.

[pianogeek_cz]

English is not -my- native language, either. Does that stop me from wincing at missing punctuation? No. Plus, the fact that one is -not- a native speaker makes it even more important to follow at least some basic grammar, such as capital letters at the start of sentences, punctuation etc., because a non-native speaker will have a much harder time navigating through the jumbled-up sentences. A native speaker will probably be annoyed, at most. A non-native speaker (without references to anyone specific!) could get seriously confused.

And I think this rule of the forum was brought up exactly because mephisto felt that it is being consistently ignored by a significant amount of forumers who are perfectly capable of following it. Which is, by the way, a claim I definitely second.

[mephisto]

I understand the rules of the forum.  I just don't see the point in making a big deal of it if that's already stated in the rules...  the fact that you are bringing it up while English is not your native language seems to be about as useful as a horn player giving a piano masterclass and complaining about wrong notes.

No it is as useful as a flutist telling a pianist that he should phrase and breath correctly even though he plays the piano.

[jlh]

Maybe it's because English is my native language that I don't have as much trouble reading posts as others might.  English grammar and spelling are important to me.  I notice many errors all the time.  In fact, I got a nearly perfect score on my ACT English exam in highschool -- and have taken several English courses after that in college.  That is not to brag, but just to point out that errors probably irritate me a lot more than they would a non-native speaker.  I don't make a habit of correcting errors, though, and frequently when I'm in a hurry I will make errors myself.  We're human, and this is not a formal forum.

If it's such a big deal, then I will stop playing devil's advocate and admit you have a valid point (no harm intended). 

[jlh]

No it is as useful as a flutist telling a pianist that he should hrase and breath correctly even though he plays the piano.

By the way, that was an analogy that didn't mention breathing or phrasing, only technical things like notes.  An analogy involving phrasing and breathing would better suit content, which this thread specifically does not address.

[mcgillcomposer]

Does anyone else think this thread is ridiculous? If you're worried about whether or not someone begins a sentence with a capital letter or not you have WAY too much time on your hands. If this were in some way a professional forum, I could understand, but judging by the content, it's quite informal.

[soliloquy]

I counted at least 24 spelling and syntax errors in your first post 

I counted sixty.

[ahinton]

they think it's bad grammar because it doesn't follow norwegian styles of grammar - where you say:  'ole, let's throw the cow over the fence some hay.'  i know this because there are a lot of norwegian people here.  they're all wierd.

Do you mean "weird"? Or maybe "wired"? Or perhaps even "wider"? (although, of course, Sweden is considerably "wider" than Norway, hence that Swedish joke that the sole purpose of Norway is to protect the Swedes from the ravages of the North Sea...)

Or are we back on that Merry Weirdo again?...

Best,

Alistair

[pianogeek_cz]

Does anyone else think this thread is ridiculous? If you're worried about whether or not someone begins a sentence with a capital letter or not you have WAY too much time on your hands. If this were in some way a professional forum, I could understand, but judging by the content, it's quite informal.

No, in fact it means someone doesn't have time to squint through virtually sentence-less blocks of writing and try to sort out what it means. 

Yes, there is disproportionately much ado about nothing special. Does that make it less valid?

[shortyshort]

I think that as long as people try their best, that's OK.

[mephisto]

By the way, that was an analogy that didn't mention breathing or phrasing, only technical things like notes.  An analogy involving phrasing and breathing would better suit content, which this thread specifically does not address.

Ok.

[elevateme_returns]

It is not irony at all. You seam to lack a basic human facility: the facility to see things in more than black and white.

dogs cant see things in anything else than black and white

[mephisto]

And your point is?

[thalberg]

We are such losers for having a thread like this and letting it get so long.  We have way too much time on our hands.  I bet we could have time to eliminate world hunger if we stopped writing stuff like this.  Anyway, on to my next useless post.

[pianistimo]

*Waves white flag and starts using capital letters temporarily.  It's much faster to type without caps.  Sometimes it's easier to send someone a quick message, too.  You just use a few letters and don't bother to spell out the entire word.  Someday text-messaging might save your life.  but, on the other hand - it might spell the death of the language, too. 

ps dogs may only see in black and white - but they dream in color.  or is that cats?  well, one or the other.

thalberg, what you are talking about is 'wilfing.'  it stands for 'what was i looking for?'  this idea was coined by a british marketing research firm that found that UK workers lost an average of two full days a month to aimless web browsing.  in the us, a 2006 america online and salary.com survey found that for 52 % of workers, internet surfing was a top time-waster.  a forrester research principal analyst found 'some workers can spend up to 8 hours a week on web browsing.'  (i think that's in china.  just kidding.  it's probably everywhere).  thankfully, noone has surveyed people who go on pianoforums.

[ahinton]

thankfully, noone has surveyed people who go on pianoforums.

Would you care to enlighten us all as to what makes you so sure about that?...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

well, alistair - i suppose that categorically we can view our stats to pump up our egos  on time-wasting - but who really looks at them but us?  do people care that much about musicians.  they were left to play when the titanic sunk.  we are mere figureheads of a lost culture.

my son told me not to bother with a web site for piano lessons because noone would look at it.  how positive is that?  so i think -ok performance.  but, he says there are too many acoustic and dj people that use recordings.  the old fashioned piano player is really an island.

[pianisimmo]

From the forum rules:

The official language is English. As many members do not have English as their native language, please write in proper English and avoid slang. Use capitals, periods and commas to make your sentences clear. However, do not worry if you do not think your English is good enough - your intentions and thoughts will most likely be understood even if you make grammatical mistakes.

Could it be any clearer?

Excuse. I am from der germanland. I realy love playing der honkytonk(piano), eating nice fud(sauerkraut) and making parenthesis too klose to der words *der winking smily*.
Should I only, becaus, its a bit more difficult reading my words not be allowd posting here because otherr man telling me to learn der english was ich schon kann oder nicht?
I can help peoples who dont understand words on german note pages and rite funny messages becaus I have so muchen timen.
Oh, I almost forget !!!!?!!!!!!! Are you like serious.
Oh! I also spell my name wrong. You see?`Pianisimmo. Har Har. I big meany.
Ga.  Says my baby?

[pianisimmo]

dogs cant see things in anything else than black and white

for mephisot:
his point is sat u are der doggen bwahaha

no, fun aside: it means that dogs let each other live nicely together although they are only black and white seeing -> conserwativ. And they dont spend so long in fori (or is it u-declination, like foru; probably not forums! excuse my latin) like sis, rather they do bite nice hunde knochis.
So please let us bad englisch users life happily together and amuse us-selves about us-selves.
CU around se forum

Mesage to forumse master: please dont delete, this posten is unessesery (der difficult word, realy)
but funny bwaha ha. ha

[invictious]

wauw, tihs thread are vrey usless.

[pianisimmo]

wauw, tihs thread are vrey usless.

yes vrey muhc
arf arf!

[pianochick93]

I agree that it makes things a lot easier to read if things are properly punctuated. However, things like don't becoming dont and a few typos aren't really that bad. Scientific studies have shown that most people can recognise a word if it has the first and last letters in place and all the letters in the middle a little scrambled.

When I talked to a friend about the original topic, he said, "We have to use spelling and grammar at school, we need a break"
Guess what we go to school to learn, so we can use it other places.

I am a member of another forum who are pretty strict on their grammar rules. They accept that everyone makes typos and that some people don't know how to spell some things, but if someone makes a post like "Lyk thats so totaliieey wyld, how has skool bin this wk" or something with the same 'chatspeak' like motive, that person gets a lovely little PM from a mod saying "Clean up your English or get lost" only in much politer terms.

When I first joined there I was in the habit of not capitalising my "i"s, but I got told off, and since then it has been almost second nature to capitalise them. It's not that hard, and it also isn't hard to proof read a post (unless it's very long) for typos before you post.

[soliloquy]

*Puts on my sexy cop outfit*

Hey Nils; I'll be the grammar police if you want.  *pats my lexico-billy club*