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Author Topic: Octave glissando (Waldstein)  (Read 6749 times)
m_dronti
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« on: May 25, 2004, 02:00:15 AM »

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before on this forum, but anyways:

soon I'll start studying the Waldstein-sonata. in the 3rd movement there's this horrible place with octave glissandos. now, what's the best way to get this properly done (tone quality, stamina etc)?

and while where at it, any tips on how to execute the melody clearly while doing the trills at the same time in the RH (also in the 3rd movement)?
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Pianist03
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2004, 02:09:49 AM »

Hello..I'm also in the process of the studying the Waldstein.

Um...as for the glissandos, I know what you are referring to, as I saw a video of Amir Katz (11th Van Cliburn comp.) play it at the preliminaries and from what I saw, he played the octave and then dragged them downward, (as if it were nothing!) Honestly, I don't know how he did it...

Also, with the melody in the RH, you don't trill at the same time, but just play it out with the 5th finger..as soon as you play the melody note, you continue trilling....it is happening so fast that the ear can't tell that you stopped trilling for a fast second.

Hope this helps
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"The good man is the only excellent musician, because he gives forth a perfect harmony not with a lyre or other instrument but with the whole of his life." --Plato
faulty_damper
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2004, 02:23:25 AM »

About the trill and melody of the right hand.  It's noticeable.  Perhaps to an untrained ear it is not but it is noticeable that the trill has stopped so the melody can play even if their is no interuption; that missing note is still missing.
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m_dronti
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2004, 02:46:32 AM »

but isn't it possible to execute the melody at the same time as the trill? in an edition that Hans von Bülow made, he suggest that the trill should be played slowly but the melody be executed simultaneously...
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2004, 03:07:46 AM »

Possible, but not prudent if your hands are not large.  The only note that should be played simultaneously is the G since that is the trilling note.  But back on topic: I'm still not able to play that trill.  The primary technical difficulty is the I'm not very good yet with the 1-2 trill.  If you are very good at it, then the melody shouldn't be too much of a problem if you have the ideal technique to pull it off.
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mosis
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2004, 03:30:12 AM »

What's so hard about 8va gliss.? Play the octave, and then break your thumb and slide your hand down, so your thumb is glissing an octave lower than your pinky.
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2004, 04:13:38 AM »

Some pianos have really heavy action and it HURTS!

But to remedy this, I have found that wrapping tape around my thumb really helps!  But only if I'm able to put it on during the quarter note rests. Roll Eyes Grin
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thracozaag
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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2004, 05:48:16 PM »

Quote
Some pianos have really heavy action and it HURTS!

But to remedy this, I have found that wrapping tape around my thumb really helps!  But only if I'm able to put it on during the quarter note rests. Roll Eyes Grin


 Serkin apparently stuck his pinky and thumb up his nose before the glissandos (I've seen other people lick their fingers).
 I initially played these octave gliss's as octaves (which is a whole other issue of difficulty).  If the piano's light, the gliss's are no problem, though.

koji
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2004, 12:17:00 PM »

Sticking it up his...  That's some snotting playing. Grin  I'd hate to be the technician having to wipe off his snot.
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erik-
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2004, 03:37:04 PM »

I read that when Claudio Arrau was to play the Waldstein sonata for a concert, he would try the piano before the concert to see if it is responsive enough to perform the octave glissando, and if it's not he would just not play the waldstein and play something else instead.
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anda
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2004, 04:07:29 PM »

i didn't play glissando - my hands are way to small for this kind of stuff. instead, i played all the octaves (it's widely accepted).

as for the trills, try practicing by playing 32nd notes instead or trills (measured trill). this way, the note in the melody is always on the g of the trill, which i suppose you are playing with finger #1 - so you get to play octaves, sixths, and so on, intervals playable. in tempo, there's no difference betwwe 32nds and actual trill.
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etudes
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2005, 02:56:52 PM »

i think in the waldstein i would play all octaves instead of gliss. (cziffra did it)
btw down gliss. is easier than up gliss.(esp.in the islamey that always hurt my pinky)
about a trill problem with a melody in the upper part u should try to practise la campanella as a preparing piece (in the middle before cadenza) so u will use to it
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IanT
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2005, 04:44:20 PM »

There's another way besides glissandi and just playing the octaves.  Check out this thread, specifically the last-but-one post.  R.Schaefer describes a technique that works quite well...

http://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,6745.0.html

Ian
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tds
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2005, 06:37:39 PM »

if you only practice them as glisssandi, then your life will be on the mercy of pianos. insecurity can easily built itself while you are concertizing. well, not so, when you have your ideal private piano which you can bring everywhere you go. best, tds
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didi100
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2017, 08:37:27 PM »

I am now working on the 3rd movement of the Waldstein and in my von Bulow transcription, there is an alternative played with both hands (which is at the bottom of that glissando page). I've watched many you tube videos and notice that many pianists use this instead of the glissando. I don't want to ruin my hands attempting it.
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torandrekongelf
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 10:30:25 PM »

Why not just play it like Leif Ove Andsnes does here? Seems perfectly reasonable. Or am I missing something? At 24:25

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