Ades - Darknesse visible

[andhow04]

hello people.  this is just a practicing session of the thomas ades piece written around 1998, i think, called darknesse visible, which is an "explosion" (his words) of the famous john downland song "in darknesse let mee dwelle."

i have to play this in a few short weeks.  i'm posting both for the people's enjoyment, maybe they don't knw this piece and will love it, and also for critiques because it feels uncomfrotable and i am not sure, frankly, if it is comprehensible to the listener the way i am playing it.  comments desired!

UPDATE:
the video for this from the live concert is here,
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=40895.msg468359#msg468359

i think it came off quite well. i thinkt he beginning could have been slower because the audience has to be oriented to whats happening, but past that i think it went more or less as planned...

[retrouvailles]

I know this piece quite well, having seen it live a few times and I've contemplated learning it myself. I think you are shaping the individual voices quite well, and I think that it should turn out well in performance, provided that you get a piano with a good action. Those quiet repeated notes can be terrible to get to speak in a performance. However, I think this sounds quite good for a practice session, and your audience should like it. Good luck!

[goldentone]

Interesting piece, Andhow.  I enjoyed it.  More time with it might be your answer to becoming comfortable with it. 

[furtwaengler]

I have always been fascinated with this piece, and have worked on in the past. I've been afraid to program it, though - It's got some crazy demands in control. Your performance it very forward, and there's a brightness to it (which I guess makes the darkness visible). When the repeated notes stop, the softs can be even more hushed, even, almost breathless. Is there a piece that depends more on the action of the piano that this?

[rachfan]

Hi andhow,

I listened to the piece a couple of times.  You're an artist, and I believe that you've done your utmost to represent this work to best advantage for the composer.  High compliments for that!  

Ades, an acclaimed London composer, seems to write far more for orchestra than piano per se, so probably thinks orchestrally when writing for the piano.  He studied piano with the highly regarded touring artist and teacher Paul Berkowitz, so Ades is most likely a very good pianist in his own right enabling him to write pianistically, but I think he favors the orchestral sound in this tone poem.  

Somehow though, the composition doesn't appeal to me or captivate me.  Some will like a composition and others will not, so nothing surprising there.  As I thought about the piece more, although modern, it's in fact tonal, although it does not go so far as to cross into neo-romanticism to my ear.  So why am I not warming up to it?  I though about it more and arrived at a probably uncommon viewpoint.

If you listen to a brass ensemble practicing, the players want the "horns to be speaking to one another" as they say.  That came to mind here.  The pianist is a soloist, of course, so has the entire instrument within his grasp, thus if musical lines must "speak", the pianist can usually facilitate that effectively.  For me in "Darknesse visible", there are often moments when the ultra high treble interacts with the contra bass--and therein lies the issue for me.  The timbres are so radically different, that it's nearly impossible to integrate and blend them well--thus they don't "speak" to each other as well as do other more proximate registers within the piano's compass and scale.  

Awhile back I recorded one of the many Catoire pieces I posted here, and in the coda the piece ends with the LH playing contra C and the RH play the uppermost treble C.  I gave Catoire what he wanted as skillfully as I could, the music was well received, but those radically diverse timbres just didn't convince me for the very same reasons I stated above.  It didn't seem like those notes were really speaking to one another.  Part of the acoustic reality is that the contra bass notes have amazing volume, richness and long sustaining power, while the ultra-treble notes, even lacking dampers as they do, are considerably weaker and have nearly instant tone decay despite the stronger weight applied to accelerate their hammers for more robust tone.  They are often just a "plink" by comparison.  But Ades uses the huge tonal separations frequently despite the inherent drawbacks.  I think this music perhaps is an acquired taste, especially for old geezers like me.

From listening, I believe this piece poses some unusual challenges. You produced a truly artistic rendition, and you deserve much credit in my opinion.    

David    

[andhow04]

Hi andhow,

I listened to the piece a couple of times.  You're an artist, and I believe that you've done your utmost to represent this work to best advantage for the composer.  High compliments for that!  

Ades, an acclaimed London composer, seems to write far more for orchestra than piano per se, so probably thinks orchestrally when writing for the piano.  He studied piano with the highly regarded touring artist and teacher Paul Berkowitz, so Ades is most likely a very good pianist in his own right enabling him to write pianistically, but I think he favors the orchestral sound in this tone poem.  

Somehow though, the composition doesn't appeal to me or captivate me.  Some will like a composition and others will not, so nothing surprising there.  As I thought about the piece more, although modern, it's in fact tonal, although it does not go so far as to cross into neo-romanticism to my ear.  So why am I not warming up to it?  I though about it more and arrived at a probably uncommon viewpoint.

If you listen to a brass ensemble practicing, the players want the "horns to be speaking to one another" as they say.  That came to mind here.  The pianist is a soloist, of course, so has the entire instrument within his grasp, thus if musical lines must "speak", the pianist can usually facilitate that effectively.  For me in "Darknesse visible", there are often moments when the ultra high treble interacts with the contra bass--and therein lies the issue for me.  The timbres are so radically different, that it's nearly impossible to integrate and blend them well--thus they don't "speak" to each other as well as do other more proximate registers within the piano's compass and scale.  

Awhile back I recorded one of the many Catoire pieces I posted here, and in the coda the piece ends with the LH playing contra C and the RH play the uppermost treble C.  I gave Catoire what he wanted as skillfully as I could, the music was well received, but those radically diverse timbres just didn't convince me for the very same reasons I stated above.  It didn't seem like those notes were really speaking to one another.  Part of the acoustic reality is that the contra bass notes have amazing volume, richness and long sustaining power, while the ultra-treble notes, even lacking dampers as they do, are considerably weaker and have nearly instant tone decay despite the stronger weight applied to accelerate their hammers for more robust tone.  They are often just a "plink" by comparison.  But Ades uses the huge tonal separations frequently despite the inherent drawbacks.  I think this music perhaps is an acquired taste, especially for old geezers like me.

From listening, I believe this piece poses some unusual challenges. You produced a truly artistic rendition, and you deserve much credit in my opinion.    

David    

very interesting thoughts!  there is definitely something to it that by dividing up the notes among all the registers it is hard (maybe not possible without seeing the score) to hear the individual lines.  actualyl the score is printed in color, just so he can clarify even to the pianist what is supposed to go with what.

though i think the way i approached it was, trying to color each note as it would sound, had the registrations been consisten.  for example in the bit towards the end, where the tremolos stop (before the literal theme in the coda) the words are "till death, till death do come", and the notes are spread from the highest e-flat to the second-lowest b-flat (eb - bb - cb - ab - bb - cb)
in between, the lute part is playing a simple scale from e-flat to a-flat, spread in contrary motion across a similar range.  it's prboably not possible for an audience to hear exactly "till deaht, till death to come" melody, but it affects how i play each note in that line

thats where the hard part comes in, more so than the tremolos, because you have to create at least in your own mind, whether its auidble outside, the idea of a line without hte benefit of hvaing physical proximity, in other words everything you have to play is a separate movement.. than itself, more than the tremolos is an interesting technique..

but also part of my discomfor with the piece is, is it just ambient music for an audience with no coherent plan?  and i think you hit on that point in your post.

tahnks again!

[rachfan]

Hi anyhow,

I'm relieved that you are OK with my assessment of the piece.   

Wow, a color-coded score!  Much of the musical notation in many modern pieces is so unconventional, that most of the older pianists are put off by it.  The younger pianists are far more adventurous and can figure it all out, as you have done here. 

Yes, I too wonder if the piece is accessible enough to be grasped on a first hearing.  I have my doubts.  Yet the same can be said of Bartok and Stravinsky in their day.  The difference between then and now though, is that classical music audiences today mostly have gray hair.  And those who do attend are usually expecting standard repertoire, or great music that has been unearthed that could become standard repertoire.  I would have to guess that it would be hard to get an audience to sit still for for Ades' music as an example, although I could be quite wrong about that.  But it's also possible to become a composer's champion, to raise awareness, acceptance and, hopefully, enthusiasm by bringing certain music into the forefront.  I've tried hard to do that with Bortkiewicz and Catoire at the various piano forums on the net, for example.  But it takes a lot of persistence!

David 

[andhow04]

Hi anyhow,

I'm relieved that you are OK with my assessment of the piece.   

Wow, a color-coded score!  Much of the musical notation in many modern pieces is so unconventional, that most of the older pianists are put off by it.  The younger pianists are far more adventurous and can figure it all out, as you have done here. 

Yes, I too wonder if the piece is accessible enough to be grasped on a first hearing.  I have my doubts.  Yet the same can be said of Bartok and Stravinsky in their day.  The difference between then and now though, is that classical music audiences today mostly have gray hair.  And those who do attend are usually expecting standard repertoire, or great music that has been unearthed that could become standard repertoire.  I would have to guess that it would be hard to get an audience to sit still for for Ades' music as an example, although I could be quite wrong about that.  But it's also possible to become a composer's champion, to raise awareness, acceptance and, hopefully, enthusiasm by bringing certain music into the forefront.  I've tried hard to do that with Bortkiewicz and Catoire at the various piano forums on the net, for example.  But it takes a lot of persistence!

David 

i think something this piece has going for it , is that it *is* basically tonal, and also it is just interesting to listen to (and probably to watch). it has a kind of extra-musical element which makes people interested i think... my worry is that it just becomes ambient music, since it is so slow it is really hard to project the various melodic ilnes that as you mention are all over the keyboard.

anyways the actual performacenw ill be ona real piano, with a real recording engineer, so i will post that when i have it.

[andhow04]

I have always been fascinated with this piece, and have worked on in the past. I've been afraid to program it, though - It's got some crazy demands in control. Your performance it very forward, and there's a brightness to it (which I guess makes the darkness visible). When the repeated notes stop, the softs can be even more hushed, even, almost breathless. Is there a piece that depends more on the action of the piano that this?

to answer your last question, not that i know of, tho lots of ravel pieces seem to demand a top notch instrument as well.

i wonder what you mean by "very forward" i am not sure i understand.

thanks for listening

[andhow04]

here is the video for this most unusual piece:

[scottmcc]

andhow, I listened to this when you first posted it and was very much drawn in by this unfamiliar piece.  I had no idea there were so many notes in it until you posted the video though.  I guess all of the quieter repeated notes had just slipped under my consciousness when I was just listening to the piece.  anyway, it's a very strange piece indeed, and I'm impressed at the level of control of multiple different simultaneous dynamics that it requires.  you always choose interesting repertoire!

[andhow04]

andhow, I listened to this when you first posted it and was very much drawn in by this unfamiliar piece.  I had no idea there were so many notes in it until you posted the video though.  I guess all of the quieter repeated notes had just slipped under my consciousness when I was just listening to the piece.  anyway, it's a very strange piece indeed, and I'm impressed at the level of control of multiple different simultaneous dynamics that it requires.  you always choose interesting repertoire!

i'm so glad yu like this piece.  It doesn't really depend on my advocacy tho, it is already basically a modern classic and gets played a lot.  however the only other video i saw on youtube , you cou;dn't see the fellows hands (it sounds that he is doing a goo djob) and i think definitely part of the attraction of this piece is visual.

of course some of the things you have to do to play all the notes are tricky to figure out, so i guess by putting a video of it i'm helping other ppl cheat to get there faster. o well!