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Russian to Win the 16th Queen Elisabeth International Piano Competition in Brussels

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Author Topic: They’re people too!  (Read 323 times)
d_b_christopher
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« on: October 15, 2017, 11:01:12 PM »

They’re people too!

Children are people too, and contrary to popular belief they are not stupid.

I treat my young pianists, under the age of five, no different to my older pianists, that is, with respect, and a level of mindfulness; they are people too.  It is all too easy to forget that we were all young once.

https://dacapoacademy.co.uk/articles/theyre_people_too/

Do you teach under-fives? What was your most memorable moment?

I recall two young highly-intelligent children and different points in time; the boy was three, and the girl was four. They both wrote their name upside down, so I could read it.  Obviously, their handwriting was terrible, but, the sentiment was there.

When I see a young person do this, I get excited, it shows abstraction.

Children generally only think of themselves; it is a self-preservation response, wired in, so they do not put themselves into situations where they are responsible for others.  If they write their name upside down, so another person can read it, it shows an ability for thinking about things that are not actually in front of them; my perspective.  This skill is one of many that hint, at an aptitude for musical activity.

What was yours?
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keypeg
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2017, 11:28:23 PM »

I don't have much time to write atm, but just wanted to say how much I liked the article.
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d_b_christopher
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 12:01:36 AM »

I don't have much time to write atm, but just wanted to say how much I liked the article.
Thank you!

We were all young once.

When you get more time, I would love to read your perspective and thoughts.
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keypeg
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2017, 11:16:10 AM »

One reason for not writing more, besides the very real one of time, is that it's a hard topic to put into words, and you have already done so brilliantly.  I've gone back to read your other articles (they're easy to find), and like all of them.
I do not teach music - I'm a learner for the most part, though my teacher is also sharing his pedagogy with me.  I was a trained and certified public school teacher once, changed professions, but taught one-on-one, raised two children and there was homeschooling for the first period.  That is my background.

I think that there are some views in society that are so taken for granted that people may not even be aware of them consciously.  One would be of children being empty vessels, knowing nothing, needing to be filled.  Another which is even worse is seeing them as vessels containing flawed contents that must be emptied, or corrected and changed - that children are by nature lazy, or mischievous, and other negatives - unless led out of such "innate" things.  Contrast that to the root of the word "educate" - educare - to draw out of - to draw out of the person (any age) what is already there.  This is how I view things, and you seem to be saying this as well.
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lostinidlewonder
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 02:33:29 PM »

I treat my young pianists, under the age of five, no different to my older pianists, that is, with respect, and a level of mindfulness; they are people too.  It is all too easy to forget that we were all young once.
I'm not sure about treating them no different, you need more mindfulness with children than with older students who are usually much more open to correctives. Under five might not even take what you say to them seriously and you can't just try and logically convince them as you would with older students, you can show them all you want why an idea is good and should be followed but you can't force a young child to do so you need to take baby steps and be more careful in many instances. So I feel that when teaching young children you need to tread extra carefully but at the same time know when to push with guidance. Be too soft and they will walk all over you, be too strong and they will be afraid of you and hate the interaction. It is very easy to squash creativity and individuality of children and we should be extra mindful not to do it because "wrong" things they do might indeed be a creative action that needs exploring not deleting with immediate correctives. With older students however you can often correct them much easier and they are more ready to make changes without destroying their individuality and creativity.

Do you teach under-fives? What was your most memorable moment?
I do teach under fives, I like teaching them because you can play a lot of musical games with them and make music fun. I have hand puppets I use to play with them, I can't imagine doing that with older students without them thinking I am being condescending lol. I find teaching young students a lot of work and sometimes you have to go beyond the music in terms of education, some of them I had to teach numbers and letters, that is dreary especially if their parents haven't even introduced them to it. I had one little 3 year old who watched me draw the number 1 and asked me why I drew a stick. With some you even have to develop their listening skills and ability to follow a teachers instructions.
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d_b_christopher
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 02:38:58 PM »

My apologies, I have been exceptionally busy as of late and so have only just been able to get on and reply.

Thank you for your patience.

One reason for not writing more, besides the very real one of time, is that it's a hard topic to put into words, and you have already done so brilliantly.  I've gone back to read your other articles (they're easy to find), and like all of them.

I think that there are some views in society that are so taken for granted that people may not even be aware of them consciously.  One would be of children being empty vessels, knowing nothing, needing to be filled.  Another which is even worse is seeing them as vessels containing flawed contents that must be emptied, or corrected and changed - that children are by nature lazy, or mischievous, and other negatives - unless led out of such "innate" things.  Contrast that to the root of the word "educate" - educare - to draw out of - to draw out of the person (any age) what is already there.  This is how I view things, and you seem to be saying this as well.

Thank you, I am pleased to hear that you like them.

What a wonderful word “Educare”; there's something to think about.

I'm not sure about treating them no different, you need more mindfulness with children than with older students who are usually much more open to correctives. Under five might not even take what you say to them seriously and you can't just try and logically convince them as you would with older students, you can show them all you want why an idea is good and should be followed but you can't force a young child to do so you need to take baby steps and be more careful in many instances.

Children do not have a conscience, and so they will do everything from a state of selfishness without consideration.  They will not inherently listen to an adult and need to be taught to listen.
Some parents do this, others do not; you are likely dealing with children, whose parents did not put time into fundamental discipline.

This is my first lesson; if they are to get past the simple stuff, they need to be able to listen to what I ask them to do.  I refuse to speak until I have their full attention.  I also insist that they do as I ask; all it takes is patience; a war of attrition.

So I feel that when teaching young children you need to tread extra carefully but at the same time know when to push with guidance. Be too soft and they will walk all over you, be too strong and they will be afraid of you and hate the interaction. It is very easy to squash creativity and individuality of children and we should be extra mindful not to do it because "wrong" things they do might indeed be a creative action that needs exploring not deleting with immediate correctives. With older students however you can often correct them much easier and they are more ready to make changes without destroying their individuality and creativity.

Agreed.

I do teach under-fives, I like teaching them because you can play a lot of musical games with them and make music fun. I have hand puppets I use to play with them, I can't imagine doing that with older students without them thinking I am being condescending lol. I find teaching young students a lot of work and sometimes you have to go beyond the music in terms of education, some of them I had to teach numbers and letters, that is dreary especially if their parents haven't even introduced them to it. I had one little 3 year old who watched me draw the number 1 and asked me why I drew a stick. With some you even have to develop their listening skills and ability to follow a teachers instructions.

See my point above.

I agree with you, but that is why we have an option to teach whosoever we please.
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lostinidlewonder
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 08:52:36 AM »

.... they need to be able to listen to what I ask them to do.  I refuse to speak until I have their full attention.  I also insist that they do as I ask; all it takes is patience; a war of attrition.
I am sure if you have taught a lot of young children you will realize that wanting their full attention or doing exactly as you ask is not something you are going to get with many of them. The lessons with young children is much about developing their attention span and their capability to work with a teacher. With many very young students you may indeed be their very first experience with a teacher and an introduction to their very first concept of what it means to have a lesson. You must let them lose attention and then bring them back to some form of it, you cannot simply insist you have 100% of their attention, it just doesn't work that way.


I think for some it can take several months before they get the idea of what lessons are about, some merely treat it as a play date for a period of time until they grow out of it, that is all totally fine you must work with the individual. Forcing them to listen to you will pretty much always have them fearing lessons with you and the education experience as a whole.

With some I have even had to teach them numbers and letters from scratch and even how to listen and respond to questions. It can be very elementary learning tools you are developing in them but through the medium of music, you indeed may never really get into learning how to play in a model you would wish as a teacher because you are busy developing their basic learning skills which are ubiquitous to learning all subjects.
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