Yuja Wangs dresses...

[klavieronin]

I agree that it certainly looks that way, but he could wear something more comfortable that would not restrict his arm movements without resorting to the t-shirt / tgrack pants / trainers ensemble that you mention. That said, I rather doubt that audience members would notice what he's wearing from where they're sitting (you'd have to be as close as the position from where your photograph was taken to do this) because, whatever else it might do, it doesn't exactly draw audience attention to his attire; that's the other difference!

Interesting. So the criticism against Yuja's attire isn't really about what she is wearing. It's actually a criticism of the audience. What you seem to be saying is that the audience couldn't possibly look past the outfit and simply enjoy the music. Her appearance is just too much of a distraction for them. Well in part I think I might agree with you. It does seem, to me at least, that the those determined to criticise her for the way she dresses probably can't look past the outfit to simply enjoy the music.

[ahinton]

Interesting. So the criticism against Yuja's attire isn't really about what she is wearing. It's actually a criticism of the audience. What you seem to be saying is that the audience couldn't possibly look past the outfit and simply enjoy the music. Her appearance is just too much of a distraction for them. Well in part I think I might agree with you. It does seem, to me at least, that the those determined to criticise her for the way she dresses probably can't look past the outfit to simply enjoy the music.

What Yuja wears (apart from those shoes) cannot sensibly be criticised for any adverse impact upon her playing or for making it more difficult to accomplish. Those who do criticise her concert dress tend to do so as representative of a distraction from the music and its performance and, if such people make up a significant proportion of her audiences, she might be wise to have a rethink unless she either is intent on providing such a distraction (to those anemable to such) or is oblivious to it (which I imagine to be doubtful) or simply isn't bothered by the idea.

I'm not sure that your final sentence here is applicable to all who find her concert attire distracting or repellent or anything else that is adverse; I for one admire her playing but, whilst not distracted per se by her chosen mode of dress, do not find it to be advantageous to it and the shoes are disadvantageous to it,being unamenable as they are to the prospect of complex pedalling strategies involving any and all combinatons of the three pedals. It's perfectly possible, therefore, to regard her as a fine pianist but at the same time not care for what she wears when playing - and she wouldn't wear shoes like that if she were an organist!

Best,

Alistair

[klavieronin]

…Those who do criticise her concert dress tend to do so as representative of a distraction from the music and its performance and, if such people make up a significant proportion of her audiences, she might be wise to have a rethink…

Well, personally I think that would be a real tragedy and I hope she never caves to the pressure. It feels like there is a kind of puritanism sneaking in here that makes me uncomfortable. I think there are far more important things to preserve than classical music norms and audience expectation, not least of which are people's personal freedoms and right to self expression. My feeling is that if people don't like what they see then they don't have to look.

[roncesvalles]

It is one thing to discuss what a woman wears, especially in a context which often has a code of attire, but I cringe when I hear (or read) men "rate" women on a temperature scale.  Such a scale has no objective basis and rather implies characteristics about the speaker or author which are of little merit, smaller utility, and is perhaps best left unsaid.

[ahinton]

It is one thing to discuss what a woman wears, especially in a context which often has a code of attire, but I cringe when I hear (or read) men "rate" women on a temperature scale.  Such a scale has no objective basis and rather implies characteristics about the speaker or author which are of little merit, smaller utility, and is perhaps best left unsaid.

I could hardly agree with you more on that!

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Well, personally I think that would be a real tragedy and I hope she never caves to the pressure. It feels like there is a kind of puritanism sneaking in here that makes me uncomfortable. I think there are far more important things to preserve than classical music norms and audience expectation, not least of which are people's personal freedoms and right to self expression. My feeling is that if people don't like what they see then they don't have to look.

I wasn't referring to the prospect of her caving "to the pressure", not least because I am unuaware that any such pressure is being put upon her by audience members or anyone else; I referred instead to her giving consideration to a change of attire should she become aware that adverse opinions on it are not held by a mere two or three audience members at each performance. That said, it would arguably be even more embarrassing at a concert performance were a significant proportion of the audience wilfully to look away from the artist/s on the concert platform throughout a performance, as this would be hard for other audience members not to notice. I expressed some opinions on the subject but would no more wish, still less seek, to "put pressure" on Yuja to do anything about it than I would allow my view of her playing to be influenced by it, although I would also not wish that she develop tendon problems as a consequence of pedalling when wearing those shoes, so I hope that someone who has her confidence gently warns her of this risk.

Best,

Alistair

[klavieronin]

It is one thing to discuss what a woman wears, especially in a context which often has a code of attire, but I cringe when I hear (or read) men "rate" women on a temperature scale.  Such a scale has no objective basis and rather implies characteristics about the speaker or author which are of little merit, smaller utility, and is perhaps best left unsaid.

I could hardly agree with you more on that!

… I'd describe her appearance as tepid rather than "hot" (as some have suggested).

[klavieronin]

I wasn't referring to the prospect of her caving "to the pressure", not least because I am unuaware that any such pressure is being put upon her by audience members or anyone else; I referred instead to her giving consideration to a change of attire should she become aware that adverse opinions on it are not held by a mere two or three audience members at each performance.

Well, that's what I was talking about. It would be a shame if she let the opinions of her audience dictate how she chooses to dress. Still, I imagine her audience, for the most part, is happy to let her dress how she pleases. I certainly don't have an issue with it and I don't find it distracting in the least.

[marik1]

Well, personally I think that would be a real tragedy and I hope she never caves to the pressure.

It would be a shame if she let the opinions of her audience dictate how she chooses to dress. Still, I imagine her audience, for the most part, is happy to let her dress how she pleases.

I would not be surprised and in fact, rather believe that the pressure is coming rather from her management, dictating her what and how she needs to dress--they know what sells and how to get more audience. And THIS is a shame. She is good enough without those tricks.

Best, M

[klavieronin]

I would not be surprised and in fact, rather believe that the pressure is coming rather from her management, dictating her what and how she needs to dress in hopes that way she will get more audience. And THIS is a shame. She is good enough without those tricks.

While I agree that's a possibility, it doesn't seem likely to me. The fact is she dresses the way many young women like to dress. Here is a quote from Yuja about the criticism she got after one particular concert;

"I was amused that in LA, the place where you think you should wear that dress, they made such a big deal. It was a hot summer; I was just being myself, wearing a dress I might wear in a bar. I was 24 and that’s how I think 24-year-olds should dress and not be criticised."

[marik1]

While I agree that's a possibility, it doesn't seem likely to me. The fact is she dresses the way many young women like to dress. Here is a quote from Yuja about the criticism she got after one particular concert;

"I was amused that in LA, the place where you think you should wear that dress, they made such a big deal. It was a hot summer; I was just being myself, wearing a dress I might wear in a bar. I was 24 and that’s how I think 24-year-olds should dress and not be criticised."

Well, in LA many (esp. in a beach area) 24-year-old wear bikinis. Following the same logic, she could as well wear it on stage on a hot day, wouldn't she? Why not? In any case, some of her dresses are not far from that...

Best, M  

[outin]

While I agree that's a possibility, it doesn't seem likely to me. The fact is she dresses the way many young women like to dress. Here is a quote from Yuja about the criticism she got after one particular concert;

"I was amused that in LA, the place where you think you should wear that dress, they made such a big deal. It was a hot summer; I was just being myself, wearing a dress I might wear in a bar. I was 24 and that’s how I think 24-year-olds should dress and not be criticised."

I guess I am too narrow minded because I do not wear at work what I might wear in a bar...Then again I have no problem going to a bar in my work attire...such double standard 

[ahinton]

I would not be surprised and in fact, rather believe that the pressure is coming rather from her management, dictating her what and how she needs to dress--they know what sells and how to get more audience. And THIS is a shame. She is good enough without those tricks.

Agreed (or at least suspected!)...

Best,

Alistair

[pianoville]

Are people seriously still discussing this? It's been like two weeks!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Well, in LA many (esp. in a beach area) 24-year-old wear bikinis. Following the same logic, she could as well wear it on stage on a hot day, wouldn't she? Why not? In any case, some of her dresses are not far from that...

Best, M  

I'd be cool with that.  I hope the day people can just wear whatever they want to classical concerts without being judged.  And the whole 'dress is distracting from the music' thing I think is just a self control issue that reflects more on the audience member not the performer

But for real though that's unfair you're taking what she said and blowing it out of proportion she's not wearing anything close to a bikini.

Oh and by the way Outin I just found out I fractured my left hand sorry about that lol

[outin]

Are people seriously still discussing this? It's been like two weeks!

Indeed, look what YOU did?

[klavieronin]

I guess I am too narrow minded because I do not wear at work what I might wear in a bar...Then again I have no problem going to a bar in my work attire...such double standard  

And I sincerely hope nobody criticises you for your choice of attire. I only have one outfit; black jeans, plain t-shirt, black walking shoes, a jacket in colder weather. It rarely happens but I always resent it when people suggest I should dress differently. Perhaps that's a fault of mine…?

[klavieronin]

Are people seriously still discussing this? It's been like two weeks!

True. I must admit I am feeling a little embarrassed to have wasted so many words on this. What Yuja Wang chooses to wear ought to be irrelevant but or some reason it isn't. Maybe the best thing to do would be to stop talking about it. I'll give it a go.

[mjames]

Yuja was a world class pianist long before she started wearing "revealing" clothes, she isn't wearing it because it sells lmfao. There are plenty of other female pianists that try the "sex sells" tactic and they're all irrelevant.

It's just not a marketing gimmick that works well in the classical world. She also wears normal attire too, more often than she does with revealing one. I mean she has had many interviews where she has explicitly stated that she does it because she enjoys it and wants to, and yet despite her revealing this we still get "haha she just doing to get horny men/women in her concerts." Ignore her statements about it being a form expression, and conspire about how she's using it to lure people in. Some of you are really showing your age here.

Jesus.

[outin]

And I sincerely hope nobody criticises you for your choice of attire.

First, I don't think anyone would dare...I guess I can be a bit intimidating

Secondly, I wouldn't care less if someone did 

[klavieronin]

First, I don't think anyone would dare...I guess I can be a bit intimidating

Secondly, I wouldn't care less if someone did  

Oh well, in that case I hope you become a perpetual target for ridicule, outrage, and scorn.

[outin]

Oh well, in that case I hope you become a perpetual target for ridicule, outrage, and scorn.

Thanks, that would be fun!

[stevensk]

Or it might be a personal opinion, might it not?...

Best,

Alistair
[/quote

-Well, might or might not. I dont care]

[stevensk]

Are people seriously still discussing this? It's been like two weeks!

Totally agree!

[ahinton]

Totally agree!

Is everyone here actually discussing it seriously?

Best,

Alistair

[mcwilson]

hmmmm. How about Eileen Joyce? She also caused quite a riot for the times....
Richard Bonynge was a music student in Sydney during her 1948 tour, and he said: "She brought such glamour to the concert stage. We all used to flock to her concerts, not least because of the extraordinary amount of cleavage she used to show!".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eileen_Joyce

[ahinton]

hmmmm. How about Eileen Joyce? She also caused quite a riot for the times....
Richard Bonynge was a music student in Sydney during her 1948 tour, and he said: "She brought such glamour to the concert stage. We all used to flock to her concerts, not least because of the extraordinary amount of cleavage she used to show!".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eileen_Joyce

Nothing new under the sun, one might assume - and Joyce (non Hatto!) was a more than merely decent pianist - but I rather doubt that she wore those absurdly uncomfortable shoes that, for whatever (if anything) they might have been designed, pedalling was not it!

Best,

Alistair

[marik1]

and Joyce was a more than merely decent pianist...

Eileen Joyce had unparalleled finesse, unmatched dexterity, grace, style, taste, charm, and incredibly natural musicianship together with dazzling and amazing bravura! In my book Yuja Wang in those terms is nowhere close and in comparison sounds like a typewriter...

YMMV
  

[mrcreosote]

Virtuoso caliber piano is athletic.  Athletes wear as little as possible in track and field, table tennis, and similar.  Yuja still sears too much.

Seriously, everyone knows playing in a suit sucks balls.  I like it when LL shows up in a black T. 

Break the Mold I say...  And maybe the Women will so it (!)

[mrcreosote]

Sorry but I want to add more of my take on the Classical music scene - something that needs to be "blown up" and Yuja's dresses are a great start.  I have no idea but Ligeti's opera basically has at least one basically naked soprano and a tenor(?) eating a difficult to manage cheeseburger.  And his performance art Mysteries of the Macabre also mocks this Establishment.  I love Ligeti for this although I find his music difficult, complex, and impossible to memorize.  Maybe in 20 years I'll have evolved enough perhaps to where I feel Prokofiev now.

I'm with Maria Pires who never liked the concert and recital formats - they are too formal and stifling - in particular, a child should never experience the aloneness of being on stage alone.  Tuxedos are sometimes involved - how awful. 

Recitals are riddled with rules.  Rubinstein playing for friends in his drawing room is the ideal format:  playing what makes sense at the time.  Establishing a program months in advance is the epitome of "reciting" music from a list rather than at least playing what is right for that moment.  If I ever make it to a recital where one piece is played, there is no telling what I may choose to play at that time - has anyone ever Blown Off their program???

Once I saw a clip of Horowitz sitting down at the piano at a concert (or recital... was it Vienna?) and he touched the keys and played a single chord if I remember it.  Outrageous some would say.  To me, this was an act of intimacy and heightened greatly what was to follow - the old man was doing what he wanted.

[visitor]

 

[ahinton]

Sorry but I want to add more of my take on the Classical music scene - something that needs to be "blown up" and Yuja's dresses are a great start.

I wouldn't want to witness Yuja Wang's dresses being blow up. Suitable performance attire for instrumentalists is nevertheless a matter to be taken seriously enough to ensure that players are encouraged to wear what is the most confortable and, within reason, the least restrictive in terms of enabling ease of performance; that's just as important for studio recordings where there's no audience as it is for live concerts.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Eileen Joyce had unparalleled finesse, unmatched dexterity, grace, style, taste, charm, and incredibly natural musicianship together with dazzling and amazing bravura! In my book Yuja Wang in those terms is nowhere close and in comparison sounds like a typewriter...
  

Perhaps she sounds like a typewriter when she dresses like a sexy secretary.

Personally, i think how she dresses sometimes cheapens the art that has made her wealthy. As time begins to take its inevitable toll, perhaps her dresses will be revealing less and her talent more.

She is a great pianist but far from the best out there and dressing up like a street corner slag might be the only reason that history remembers her. Of course, only time will tell.

Thal

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Perhaps she sounds like a typewriter when she dresses like a sexy secretary.

Personally, i think how she dresses sometimes cheapens the art that has made her wealthy. As time begins to take its inevitable toll, perhaps her dresses will be revealing less and her talent more.

She is a great pianist but far from the best out there and dressing up like a street corner slag might be the only reason that history remembers her. Of course, only time will tell.

Thal

Elitism at its finest  

If you have to go out of your way just to take shots at someone you're just a hater

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I wouldn't want to witness Yuja Wang's dresses being blow up. Suitable performance attire for instrumentalists is nevertheless a matter to be taken seriously enough to ensure that players are encouraged to wear what is the most confortable and, within reason, the least restrictive in terms of enabling ease of performance; that's just as important for studio recordings where there's no audience as it is for live concerts.

Best,

Alistair

You're just saying that as an excuse so you can criticize her for wearing revealing clothing.

Her heels and choice of clothing clearly doesn't effect her if she plays everything perfectly and well.

[thalbergmad]

Elitism at its finest  

If you have to go out of your way just to take shots at someone you're just a hater

I am not going out of my way to do anything, but i think her reputation amongst teenagers with hormone problems is probably greater then those who can forget what she is wearing and evaluate her playing.

To coin a phrase once made about Paderewski, "she's good, but she's no Wang".

Thal

[visitor]

Yuja weara a dress, lots of fuss ensues...
*"here, hold my beer for a little bit"
--Lola

[klavieronin]

I am not going out of my way to do anything, but i think her reputation amongst teenagers with hormone problems is probably greater then those who can forget what she is wearing and evaluate her playing.

Hormone problems? A teenager wanting to watch an attractive young woman seems pretty healthy to me.

[mjames]

Yuja weara a dress, lots of fuss ensues...
*"here, hold my beer for a little bit"
--Lola

Lola is curvy as f holy crap

[visitor]

Lola is curvy as f holy crap

Khatia stirs that pot up and conservative classical fans Into a frenzy too

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I am not going out of my way to do anything, but i think her reputation amongst teenagers with hormone problems is probably greater then those who can forget what she is wearing and evaluate her playing.

To coin a phrase once made about Paderewski, "she's good, but she's no Wang".

Thal

She is a great pianist but far from the best out there and dressing up like a street corner slag might be the only reason that history remembers her. Of course, only time will tell.

-you

[rachmaninoff_forever]

additionally I've posted videos of me practicing completely shirtless on my insta and I've never gotten any negative feedback.

double standard

ALSO...

Mjames calm yo ass down she just looks like that cause the way she sits.

[visitor]

visitor finally finds time to go practice
accidentally opens wrong door and walks in on some dude playing rach 3 w no shirt

[thalbergmad]

Hormone problems? A teenager wanting to watch an attractive young woman seems pretty healthy to me.

If their judgement is clouded because of the attractiveness, i would say that is not healthy.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

additionally I've posted videos of me practicing completely shirtless on my insta and I've never gotten any negative feedback.

Try doing it at Carnegie Hall.

If you ever get there.

Thal

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Try doing it at Carnegie Hall.

If you ever get there.

Thal

That's just cause the classical world is full of elitist snobs and it makes no sense.

People will go to an opera where there's incest and violence and stuff but if someone wears skimpy clothes it's blasphemous and disrespectful to the music.

and yeah it's one of my life goals to try and dismantle this stupid elitism and make music less formal and more accepting.  I've already advertised my public recitals with shirtless or goofy pics like me doing my laundry in a onsie and got mostly positive feedback.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

If their judgement is clouded because of the attractiveness, i would say that is not healthy.

Thal

except she's actually a fantastic pianist anyways so how is their judgement clouded

[outin]

additionally I've posted videos of me practicing completely shirtless on my insta and I've never gotten any negative feedback.

double standard

Nope, you just look a lot better shirtless than ms Wang in her short skirts.

[thalbergmad]

except she's actually a fantastic pianist anyways so how is their judgement clouded

But many treat her as the best and she isn't.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

But many treat her as the best and she isn't.

Okay and?

Who cares if people thinks she's the best or not?  Why does that even matter?  Classical music is ENTERTAINMENT people go to a concert to be ENTERTAINED.  

This talk about who's the best or who's better or who's not a good pianist is completely stupid and you're stupid for using that as an excuse to bash her clothing.  I expect more from someone who's old and is supposed to have wisdom but clearly in this situation you have the mentality of a 12 year old.