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Topic: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?  (Read 2601 times)

Offline lelle

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Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
on: January 27, 2021, 09:45:23 PM
Are any of you familiar with Andras Schiffs Beethoven sonata recordings? I discovered his lectures on the Beethoven sonatas a while ago and think they are excellent. I sometimes hear people think Schiff is too dry and impersonal but I think his Beethoven is very much alive and musical and suit his temperament well. I don't agree with every interpretation choice he makes (I think constantly pressing down the sustain pedal in the Moonlight sonata first movement is a bit silly) but his talks about the sonatas are very interesting and I can at least respect his choices when I do not agree with them.

Here are the lectures in a playlist for reference. I have listened to them several times, they are that good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4ZWPJlNSXM&list=PLoNBbqXltyeKMjF_uRbSnXNsGO_h3MqZC

Thoughts?

Offline j_tour

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #1 on: January 28, 2021, 03:35:24 AM
I think the lectures are magnificent, and not only entertaining, but enlightening.  Especially when combined with the brief extracts he demonstrates.  I believe I've heard them all, but I'm not sure.  His verbal analogies drawn from the Op. 26 and Op. 27 no. 1 shaped the way I approach these, despite earlier playing as a young kid of the Op. 26 (the Op. 27 no. 1 is one I came to later, fairly recently:  of course, as I a kid, I did the presto agitato and the rest of the Op. 27 no. 2, probably like many ambitious young teenagers, but now I think the Op. 27/1 is the sh*t).  There were many other analogies from the whole set, but those two in particular I remember in the subconscious, somehow.

I have not, however, heard Schiff perform the Beethoven sonatas, not even one in entirety.  Then again, I think Brendel is, since I was maybe twelve or so, one of my ideal interpreters, so the quality of being "dry" or so forth is not an issue for me.  I happen to like Beethoven played with crispness and compos mentis, as well as restraint.

Schiff, for me is one of the absolute modern masters of Bach, but he is surprising when he performs, for example, the Chopin Préludes, which performance resonates with me very much, in its continuity as performed by Schiff, and his technique which is close to the fallboard many times, which is a weakness for me physically having fairly long fingers, in contrast to his more compact hands.  As well as his Schumann recordings.

In short, I don't find any objectionable qualities at all in any recording I've heard of András Schiff:  I will not be able to surpass or approach him in any way, even including his exceptional memory of his working repertoire, but I find him a very good model in many ways for my own aspirations.

You have good taste!
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline anacrusis

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #2 on: January 29, 2021, 07:23:26 PM
Those lectures are really high quality and entertaining!

I don't know if this is sacrilege but while I enjoy Schiff's Beethoven I'm not really a fan of his Bach, at least not how he plays it nowadays. I often wish he played either a bit faster or a bit slower. I'm exaggerating a bit but I feel the tempo and dynamics are often a bit too samey across the board, for my taste.

Offline j_tour

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #3 on: January 30, 2021, 03:16:20 AM
I often wish he played either a bit faster or a bit slower. I'm exaggerating a bit but I feel the tempo and dynamics are often a bit too samey across the board, for my taste.

Well, de gustibus...in here, the A major Engl Ste live, yes, there is a kind of homogeneity, or at worst a continuity among the dances.  I suppose it's down to taste, how one conceives of these dance suites from start to finish.  Yes, I like, for example, the Bourées I & II from the A maj played more...."dixieland," to borrow a phrase...but, it's a challenge, because the Sarabande is so different.  IOW, I don't know the perfect interpretation.

A good contrast might be Argerich playing the A minor Engl. Suite and Schiff doing the same, but I'm becoming middle-aged, and I don't want to risk having a stroke, so I won't push it.

I suspect Schiff view himself as an elderly Sifu, which would explain his odd concert attire, from the European point of view.  Very Mandarin, or Brahmin, in metaphorical senses, is what he seems to be affecting.

EDIT:  OK, I admit Schiff has his "on" and "off" moments.

For an example of the latter, here's András speaking about the A maj. Engl. Ste.:  spoken intro

And yet, there's a masterclass on youtube where he very humanely and masterfully demonstrates and critiques at least one student about the D minor fantasia of Mozart, where he is articulate, humane, and fully demonstrative and at home with the idiom of Mozart's dramatic age.

A surprisingly versatile player, and it is refreshing to see glimpses of a traditional, classical eduction in the letters among such an accomplished player. 

My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline lelle

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #4 on: January 31, 2021, 12:31:48 AM

I have not, however, heard Schiff perform the Beethoven sonatas, not even one in entirety.

There is live album with the sonatas played by Schiff if you have spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/7FmN3GeVocp3VGmU1poJBE?si=CJiNp-AjQBKA6cx0-8uugw

For the Chopin preludes, you gotta check out Cortot. He is the undisputed master of those, in my opinion ;)

Offline j_tour

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #5 on: January 31, 2021, 07:54:04 AM
There is live album with the sonatas played by Schiff if you have spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/7FmN3GeVocp3VGmU1poJBE?si=CJiNp-AjQBKA6cx0-8uugw

For the Chopin preludes, you gotta check out Cortot. He is the undisputed master of those, in my opinion ;)

Thanks!  I don't have spotify, but one of these days I'll give Schiff's Beethoven a quick once over.

I didn't know any recordings of the Préludes existed by Cortot. 

I certainly find his student edition of the Préludes very interesting:  lots of very interesting suggestions and small technical abstractions.  Maybe it's not the most up-to-date or authoritative when it comes to the actual editing of Chopin's score, but I don't care about that too much.  Can always be fixed by comparison.

The Schiff Préludes recording I know (the only one) is the uninterrupted recital on youtube given on a Chopin-vintage Pleyel.  To me, even just playing them without pause is impressive enough (yes I know lots of people can do that in recital), but observing his mechanical work is interesting as well (since it's very different than what is appropriate for me on these pieces, but learning different tricks is worthwhile I find).  Plus, the novelty (?!) of the instrument he performs on.

My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline lelle

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #6 on: February 03, 2021, 10:51:58 PM
Thanks!  I don't have spotify, but one of these days I'll give Schiff's Beethoven a quick once over.

I didn't know any recordings of the Préludes existed by Cortot. 

I certainly find his student edition of the Préludes very interesting:  lots of very interesting suggestions and small technical abstractions.  Maybe it's not the most up-to-date or authoritative when it comes to the actual editing of Chopin's score, but I don't care about that too much.  Can always be fixed by comparison.

The Schiff Préludes recording I know (the only one) is the uninterrupted recital on youtube given on a Chopin-vintage Pleyel.  To me, even just playing them without pause is impressive enough (yes I know lots of people can do that in recital), but observing his mechanical work is interesting as well (since it's very different than what is appropriate for me on these pieces, but learning different tricks is worthwhile I find).  Plus, the novelty (?!) of the instrument he performs on.

Yeah I know the video you are talking about, that instrument is great. I have played on Pleyel grands twice in my life, it was pretty great actually. I felt like a real Chopin! Highly recommended if you get the chance. Schiff's Chopin is not my cup of tea though, which is a shame considering how much I like his Beethoven.

Here's my all-time, desert island favourite recording of the complete preludes with Cortot:



Some people prefer the also highly regarded 1933 version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3ZLDeG6Kfk&list=PL6k0iBQWbjS8k_nCgYi6i1feKehtyb4NG

Let me know your impressions of these!

Offline j_tour

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #7 on: February 04, 2021, 01:50:14 AM
Here's my all-time, desert island favourite recording of the complete preludes with Cortot:



Brilliant. 

I had no idea.

This is the best performance of the Chopin préludes I've heard.  Nuance, control, everything.

Mind you, I've played the required assortment of Chopin (on the easier side) when I was much younger, but these préludes still captivate me, where nothing else but the ci darem variations of FC excite me these days.  When it comes to Chopin.

Hats off, a genius!  Cortot and Chopin.  More the former, I'd say.  Astonishing control.

Thank you so much!  It seems odd for a musician, but I don't listen to recorded music very often at all:  this is a great exception.

Cortot enfin, putain merde!  Ce n'est q'extra! 
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline lelle

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #8 on: February 05, 2021, 10:21:59 PM
Happy to hear I could show you something you enjoyed  :D

Cortot has recorded quite a lot of Chopin (sometimes with tons of wrong notes!). Many of these recordings, for example the Ballades, rank among the all time great recordings. Maybe Cortot would be able to get you excited about Chopin again? He certainly does it for me!

Seems like my Schiff thread now has turned into a Cortot thread. But I don't think Schiff would mind, I hear he likes Cortot too.

Offline j_tour

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #9 on: February 06, 2021, 02:43:04 AM
Happy to hear I could show you something you enjoyed  :D

Cortot has recorded quite a lot of Chopin (sometimes with tons of wrong notes!). Many of these recordings, for example the Ballades, rank among the all time great recordings. Maybe Cortot would be able to get you excited about Chopin again? He certainly does it for me!

Seems like my Schiff thread now has turned into a Cortot thread. But I don't think Schiff would mind, I hear he likes Cortot too.

Well, I think that's for the best.  I don't know Schiff personally, and I don't speak Hungarian, but I would venture he wouldn't object to being compared to Cortot. 

I will certainly look up the Cortot recordings of other works of Chopin.  I don't really want to, but I think it's fair to do so.  Who knows, maybe I'll learn to appreciate some of the old warhorses again.  It's certainly possible!  And I like the ballades and the scherzi well enough:  I've only barely read through them, not very well, but they amuse me.

I'd like to hear Cortot playing late Scriabin, or one of Bach's suites, but I can't be chooser.

Here's a fairly innocuous (yes, funny word, given a global concern about a vaccine or several) queston to steer back to András Schiff:  I'm sure you've heard the ongoing displeasure of A.S. over finding a new home, and so forth.  IIRC that's very much an old story, perhaps two decades ago, but I don't follow things or people that closely.

This is at the level of a gossip column, like a British journal, so, one needn't comment.

But, also on a similar level, how much touring do you think M. Schiff will be doing, especially in the next few years?  I really know nothing about his personal life, except the items about his displeasure with his native country and several of the neighboring nations.

My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline lelle

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 10:36:32 PM

But, also on a similar level, how much touring do you think M. Schiff will be doing, especially in the next few years?  I really know nothing about his personal life, except the items about his displeasure with his native country and several of the neighboring nations.

Difficult to know, have you seen indications that he may want to tour less? I heard him some two-three years ago when he came here and played the Goldberg variations. Honestly it was a bit tough for me to sit through those in a live concert but it was cool to see and hear the man play, and it was very well executed.

Offline j_tour

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Re: Thoughts on Andras Schiff?
Reply #11 on: February 12, 2021, 06:42:05 AM
Difficult to know, have you seen indications that he may want to tour less? I heard him some two-three years ago when he came here and played the Goldberg variations. Honestly it was a bit tough for me to sit through those in a live concert but it was cool to see and hear the man play, and it was very well executed.

No idea at all.  If he were to tour the west coast of the US, he'd probably stop in my city/town, almost certainly (well, his manager or tour manager would arrange that, but, you know).

Oh, no. 

You didn't just admit on a piano forum that you had a hard time sitting through the Goldbergs in concert, on what was no doubt a superior instrument, and was perhaps Herr Schiff's personal instrument, possibly "tech'ed" by his own people or the absolute best people in town at least?

Oh, no!

;D

No, I'm kidding with you a bit. 

I don't think I've ever heard any Schiff recording of the Goldbergs:  I think I said somewhere else recently that I don't play all the variations (the ones that were clearly written for two manuals, on clavichord, I'd suppose, I just think is too much trouble to execute), but, like anyone else, you know, great set of music.

So, did he take the aria and, say, the first variation at the very brisk pace, as in the first Gould recording? 

I don't see Schiff as being a bravura type musician, with Bach, but within the variations, there are certainly many opportunities to be brisk, and even frenetic.

(FTR, these days when I come back to that set, I like a medium tempo for the aria (not quite as brisk as the first Gould, but with a definite "up" sense of time), but favor the first variation actually pretty fast, and the second, medium-fast, and....well, I can't give tempo indications from memory for every variation).
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.
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