tendonitis, periarthritis, help..

[paris]

1-2 months ago my right upper arm started to pain. literally after night, i woke up with weird feeling in hand. during that week i had masterclass and worked harder then usually. but however, i used to practice even more then at that time, and didn't have any problems.

it stopped after taking couple of aspirins. few weeks after, when i went to competition (another pressure for hand) it happened again. i couldn't sleep on that side and it hurt even when i didn't play. after competition, it slowly stopped.

couple of days ago it started to hurt me again. since i haven't practised, i doubt it's overpractising. so i went to the doctor specialised in that area and diagnosis is periarthritis and tendonitis. only my upper hand hurts, not wrists and fist.

therapy she proscripted is twice a day ice-massage, ibuprofen 3 times/day and some kind of gel (''Deep Relief'').

as for practising, she told me first that no practising would be good, but since i have upcoming auditions and concerts, i couldn't afford to not practice. but then again, i don't want to mess with hand injuries, because it could affect my career as proffesional musician.

so my question is, if someone had similar suffering, how did you treat it, which therapy did you use?

is it dangerous for future career?
i'm scared really so any help is welcomed

[thalbergmad]

I was sorry to read this, i can understand how concerned you are.

First of all, for something like this i would always seek a second opinion. After all, we are talking about your future here.

As an ex powerlifter, i have often used deep heat and ibugel, but that is only soothing pain, not solving a problem. If you are going to use deep heat, try a small amount first, as some people can be allergic to it. It also stinks to high heaven. Hot/cold massage can be very effective.

I have suffered from tendonitis before and the most effective treatment for me was acupuncture. I don't now how it works, but it did for me.

I am no doctor, but as you are very young, your powers of recuperation must still be very high. If a specialist tells you not to practice, you must not be tempted even if you have concerts.

Good luck, i am sure you will be OK.

Thal

PS I have charged my most powerfull healing crystal for you

 

[ridr27]

Please do not practice.
I had problems and only time healed.
Perhaps a semester off.
That is the best advice I can give.

Listen to your Doctor.  Consult a specialist, but do not try to proceed.  Give it time and that can take longer than you will wish.

I am sorry.

ridr27

[gonzalo]

Mental practice... and only play those pieces until you have them completely memorised in your head. I don't think playing the pieces one time for a concert might do much harm.
The problem is, mental practice is not easy at all.
PM if you want more information.

Best wishes,
Gonzalo

[pianowelsh]

Look at how you are using your body. It could be the practising thats setting it off - it could equally be everyday tasks that you take for granted. Try to identify what causes the pain in the first place (ie lifting twisting etc ) This may give you a clue as to how to remedy it. I might suggest a second opinion with a specialist and also a consultation with an alexander teacher as they will be able to spot any strain or tension in your posture and daily activities. Some specialist alexander teachers will even work with you at the instrument and observe you doing tasks and help you correct any kinks in your posture/movements. Be upfront with them though that you experience pain at the moment so they know where the boundaries are.
You could also try a massage.

[dreamplaying]

Mental practice... and only play those pieces until you have them completely memorised in your head. I don't think playing the pieces one time for a concert might do much harm.
The problem is, mental practice is not easy at all.
PM if you want more information.

Best wishes,
Gonzalo

I agree, good advice... maybe it is time for you to profit this months to develope or improve some other aspect of music and piano playing such as increasing your memory skills or analyzing your repertoire in detail, ...so many things that we usually forget when we are just thinking in having a exuberant technique.

All the best.

Gonzalo

[paris]

i was really nicely surprised to see your kind words and advices

here is the thing-the doctor told me that basically i can practise and it won't make injury becoming worser, as long as i don't feel more intesive pain in arm.
reading your opinions here, and listening to my intuition, i doubt that one. i feel practising will do me harm, but i have recital 15th june and conservatory auditions in early july. and if i don't do it..it won't be good either. so i don't know what to do..

i talked with my professor and for upcoming concert i won't do ballade, then slow rachmaninov etude, etc.
i'll work with left hand, and bach, and i'm really interested in mental practising. i always wanted to try it, but never had time and strong motivation. now it's perfect time to try it hehe. always look on bright side
i'll pm you gonzalo, thank you! and thanks everyone for kind words because i really need encouragment right now.

[pianistimo]

sometimes nutritional deficiencies can cause problems, too.  check your intake of calcium, potassium (bananas), and straightout oil like olive oil.  sometimes i've gotten these 'cramps' of the arm or hand - not related to playing, per se, and find the muscles relax when i have enough milk or whatever i'm lacking.

computer time with piano time can be deadly.  i think computer use is actually dangerous to piano playing if overdone.

also, when you said 'right upper arm' is where it started - i wondered about your purse.  i used to carry everything.  now i try to carry a very light purse - and if i had books or anything - to carry a book bag instead of wrapping arms around books.  it just gives your arm a cramped feeling to carry books very long.

ps i'm wondering if you should exeperiment and see how long it takes for your arm/wrist to recover.  maybe it won't be a full month or whatever-- and don't forget chiropractors which can help pinched nerves.

hopefully you don't have  aheart problem or anything.  numbness in the arm can indicate minor stroke - but at your age - i think it's something you might be doing to cause strain.  ie computer or books.

[paris]

good point pianistimo, one of the possible reasons for developing tendonitis could be too much time spent in front of computer with bad posture. i always sit reclined on my right hand and actually couple of years doing it could have help developing this. now i'm typing with my left hand lol.

thank you again gonzalo and felia for your pm help; mental practice is definitely something great worth making effort to develop.

i'm just afraid of that this will affect my future career. i don't want to be pessimistic, but there is always thst stupid little voice in my head, 'what if..' which scares me

[zheer]

therapy she proscripted is twice a day ice-massage, ibuprofen 3 times/day and some kind of gel (''Deep Relief'').

  Recently i saw this program on gifted childre, one of these children were a 10 year old girl, the youngest girl to enter the RCM adult department, she had a IQ of 150 (genuis). her problem was similar to yours tendonitis, she thought it may end here carrer, she has a lot of ambition.
     Relax, its not the end of the world, apply the gel and cream briefly if you are in pain , once the pain has gon relax even more to avoid permanent damage.Recently this guy fell 15 thousand feet from air without a parashoot and survived with little damage to his body.
      You might be just sleeping in a wrong way, you might be sleeping on your right shoulder or the num feeling in your hand might be due to tendon inflamation therefore the nerve ends are being squashed, if that is the case, it means you need to practice less at the piano and pay attention to your habits.
         chill it's not cancer there is a cure.

[thalbergmad]

hopefully you don't have  aheart problem or anything.  numbness in the arm can indicate minor stroke

That will cheer her up.

Thal

[mlha]

Hello,
I'm kind of new here.  I'm usually afraid to post, but this topic is very interesting to me, because I also have tendonitis in my wrists.  I've been to several doctors who gave me the same advice that Paris got from her doctor.  The ibuprofen works, and heat pads help too.  But I'm really wondering about what Thalbergmad said about acupuncture.  Did it take the tendonitis away right away or did you have to go for several treatments?  And did it last?

[pianistimo]

yeah...thal.  getting acupuncture would cheer her up, too.  here - let me stick you with some needles and make you feel better.   

[ridr27]

computer time with piano time can be deadly.  i think computer use is actually dangerous to piano playing if overdone.

I cannot begin to tell you how true that is.  It was the computer did me under not the other way around.

I have seen this and have backed off the computer.  The mouse in particular is deadly.  I used to love doing Finale.

Do you also do a lot of computer?
ridr27
*my two-cents*

[pianistimo]

yes.  i'm on piano forum too much.  but, it's hard to get off once you're addicted.  there are ergonomic mice -but the thing is - for me - it's the typing fast.  i can see though - that ergonomic or not - you are using the index finger a lot.  and it's probably still an unnatural thing to use a finger over and over.

ps  thal - i'm just teasing about the acupuncture.  one of my friends husbands really used it a lot for back pain.  he said it was the only thing that worked for him.  i guess you use whatever works.  they heat the needles so you don't really feel them go in, per se.  i watched once.  his wife was there, too, btw.  i think she was picking him up and asked 'do you want to see them do the acupuncture?' 

[imbetter]

I know what you're talking about Paris. I've had the same kind of issues, exept with carpaltunnel. I'd be in the middle of a piano lesson and like fall back on my chair because of carpaltunnel. I got a brase though and that fixed the problem.

The only advice I can give you is do whatever your doctor says because if you do that will treat your problem I guarentee it.

Good luck!

[thalbergmad]

But I'm really wondering about what Thalbergmad said about acupuncture.  Did it take the tendonitis away right away or did you have to go for several treatments?  And did it last?

I had 7 treatments in total. Felt better after the first one and like new after the last one.

I still go back every 2 or 3 months for a massage. Also took some kind of medicine made out of tree bark which was disgusting.

No idea how it works, but it does seem to be very effective, especially with joints.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

ps  thal - i'm just teasing about the acupuncture. 

I have constructed a voodoo doll of you.

Please let me know how your right ankle feels in the morning.

Thal

[paris]

I cannot begin to tell you how true that is.  It was the computer did me under not the other way around.

I have seen this and have backed off the computer.  The mouse in particular is deadly.  I used to love doing Finale.

Do you also do a lot of computer?
ridr27
*my two-cents*

i use laptop, without normal mouse, but it doesn't seem to be much of help. in fact, like i stated somewhere before i always sit reclined on right arm and thinking about it now, i can't understand how stupid i've been. another thing, which posibly  ruined my hand is beloved campanella 
i obviously didn't relax as much as i should while practising (i wasn't even aware). i always used to sleep on that right hand, which also ''helped'' with tendonitis. and here i am

oh well, i should stop pity myself

btw heart problems? nah i don't think so. acupunture? i'm panically afraid of needles, but if that's what could help me, i'd be ready to let them stab me with needles

[zheer]

oh well, i should stop pity myself

  Look if tendonitis is your only physical problem ,then you are doing better than 98% of the world population, be very happy.
    Back to piano playing, i remember watching your vid on chopin, one thing i noticed was your shoulder, it was very fixed and looked rather masculine, allow your finger tips to guide your arm,everything-else should follow your finger tips, start slowly and think one note at a time, Temporaraly forget what it is you have to achieve on the piano, and think more on how you can achieve it.

[thalbergmad]

acupunture? i'm panically afraid of needles, but if that's what could help me, i'd be ready to let them stab me with needles

If done by a proper practitioner, you will not even feel it. My body is like a 2nd hand dartboard and only once have i ever felt pain and that is when i had a needle put in my foot.

You should not be afraid of needles. There are a lot of little pricks on this forum and you are not afraid of them are you?

Luv

Thal

[ichiru]

My teacher got tendonitis and he cured it through surgery. Pretty scary isn't it?

[pianistimo]

i hope something else works for paris.  she's too young.  relax.  massage.  do the dishes.  that is one of the best feeling things is just soaking the arms as high as possible in warm/hot water. also, there is something called 'tiger balm' at health food stores.  or anything that packs a punch.  let them heal themselves.

[thalbergmad]

How about prayer.

That sometimes works.

Thal

[rc]

i use laptop, without normal mouse, but it doesn't seem to be much of help. in fact, like i stated somewhere before i always sit reclined on right arm and thinking about it now, i can't understand how stupid i've been. another thing, which posibly  ruined my hand is beloved campanella 
i obviously didn't relax as much as i should while practising (i wasn't even aware). i always used to sleep on that right hand, which also ''helped'' with tendonitis. and here i am

I'll bet fixing these things makes a big difference.  It's the unexpected peripheral habits that can get ya outta nowhere.

In the autumn I noticed one day that I didn't have any feeling in my left big toe, and realized I hadn't felt it in months.  I've got plenty of toes so I didn't care much anyways...  But once I got some new work boots, BAM, I could feel my toe again.  It was the gnarly shoes I'd been walking around in all those months (the bad kind of gnarly).

Also from work I would sometimes get these sharp pains all down my arm from certain tasks.  So long as I remedied what I was doing right away it's just been isolated incidents.

In my overqualified opinion, you'll be fine.

Oh, and mental practice anyways, the stuff does wonders!

[jada8]

Time to check out www.golandskyinstitute.org

I had a severe injury - both of my hands closed into fists. I had to leave school for 2 years. I am fine now thanks to the Taubman technique/Golandsky Institute.

Your body is telling you that you are playing in a stressful way. It is possible to play the piano with no fatigue or pain. I'm playing Rachmaninoff's 2nd concerto right now. No pain. No fatigue.

[jada8]

https://pianomap.com/injuries/cure.html

[sleepingcats]

I don't know where you are located, but perhaps a consultation with a doctor who performs Prolotheraphy may be able to help you. One of the doctors at this website has written many books on Prolotherapy, books that I get to read while in my own doctor's office waiting room where I go for treatment https://caringmedical.com/therapies/prolotherapy.asp  In a nutshell, they inject a dextrose substance in the weakened area to cause inflammation (yes, on purpose) which increases bloodflow, which in turn helps to regenerate tissue

Just to share my experiences, my neck and bilateral shoulder pain have increased gradually over the last two years.  I've had various steroid injections in my neck joints, physical therapy, traction, and acupuncture.  I've even consulted with a surgeon but he said that surgery wasn't an option for me and suggested traction, and wearing a neck brace, etc. I am now going to a Naturopathic Physician where I'm receiving prolotherapy treatments along with trigger point therapy to reduce my muscle spasms (started treatment mid-January).  I also had to always sleep on my back with a very thin pillow, or no pillow at all.

I am no longer in pain 24 hours/day, my neck range of motion has increased and I can go back to using a pillow at night!  Oh, and I've had some sporadic days during which I didn't have to take even one pain killer - that is a major big deal for me!

I am excited about playing the piano again and have just started working with a new teacher who has training in the Taubman and Alexander Techniques so I'm working on some really basic moves to keep my tension down, and to use the most efficient movements.

Just a warning though......if you try prolotherapy, you will have pain for a few days afterward.  During my first treatment, I was in so much pain that I wondered what I got myself into, and when I sat up, I felt like I was hit by a truck!  I have had three treatments so far, and it gets easier each time.

Since your pain is in the wrist, it will be a totally different feeling from neck treatments.  I had decided that if I'm going to be in pain regardless, I might as well try a different course of treatment and I'm so happy I did.  I thought I'd have all this pain for the rest of my life.  It doesn't cure the problem overnight, but I'm less dependant on Vicodin.

Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to share.

[drjames]

Just a couple of brief thoughts.  I think all of the advice given is fine even including acupuncture. One thing I try to accomplish with my patients with tendonitis is recovery without having to completely stop their activity whatever it may be.  This is not easy and treatment must be aggressive and by aggressive I mean not missing any appointments for therapy, not missing any meds if that is used and initiation of some type of rehabilitation immediately.  Tendonitis develops because of abrupt changes in activity.  Either increase in intensity or duration of activity or even some other change such as a new piano.  It also develops because of imbalance in muscle strength which may come about because of new demands on those muscles.  In this sense it is frequently a conditioning problem.  What I always recommend is that while treating the tendonitis, also take steps to keep it from coming back.  Strength training is important in overcoming an overuse injury.  You should exercise the joints and muscles associated with the pain but not to the point of pain or discomfort.  This then exercises the muscles that perform the activity which led to the injury.  Just as important, if not more, is the training of the muscles opposite or even far removed from the source of pain.  A pianist's fingers get plenty of exercise and I doubt one needs to do more for the fingers.  But look at where injuries occur and where fatigue is felt.  Wrists, arms and shoulders.  If your shoulders and forearms start to tire it could create tension in the hands leading to injury.  For those prone to tendonitis certainly try various treatments, but I always add on some measure of strength training, not just for the muscles needed to perform the activity, but also for those which may perform a secondary role. By balancing your muscle strength you may be able to relieve your tendonitis and prevent it from recurring at the same time.  James

[maui_bandeira_]

Hi Paris,
How are u now?

I'm sorry I'm in a hurry so couldn't read all the discussion.

I had tendonitis in both hands and had to stop playing for one year and a half.

The major issue in this is that you have to improve your work pattern. What I mean is that some people have non-renewable patterns of work, so that the more they push and the more time goes by, the more these people lose their freshness. On the other hand, and you probably know some people like that, the more you push then, and the older they get, they get younger in their minds and body.

For me, the best long term approach was definitely Alexander Technique. I recommend you consider taking classes.

For short term deadlines like very important competitions or auditions, the medicine is fine (don't abuse).

Acupuncture is also good specially before an audition (again don't get addicted to it).

I hope that helps,
Maui.

[virtuosic1]

Post deleted by me. Sorry paris. I prbably could have helped but the sisters of the Forum don't like when I dispense sound advice.

[virtuosic1]

Gone. Poof

[virtuosic1]

I was sorry to read this, i can understand how concerned you are.

First of all, for something like this i would always seek a second opinion. After all, we are talking about your future here.

As an ex powerlifter, i have often used deep heat and ibugel, but that is only soothing pain, not solving a problem. If you are going to use deep heat, try a small amount first, as some people can be allergic to it. It also stinks to high heaven. Hot/cold massage can be very effective.

I have suffered from tendonitis before and the most effective treatment for me was acupuncture. I don't now how it works, but it did for me.

I am no doctor, but as you are very young, your powers of recuperation must still be very high. If a specialist tells you not to practice, you must not be tempted even if you have concerts.

Good luck, i am sure you will be OK.

Thal

PS I have charged my most powerfull healing crystal for you

 

Hey Thal. You've got a powerlifter here too. What's your personal best and bodyweight? Does handling the heavy iron affect your technical ability at the keyboard?

[paris]

I might actually be able to help you here with sound advice based on experience. First, you have to be more specific.

What other activities away from the piano were you engaging in when the problem at the keyoard began?

What position(s) do you sleep in.

What is the exact nature of the "pain". You state, pain, but that's very general. Is it a tingling, burning, stiffening, cramping, etc.? And where exactly do these symptoms manifest themselves?

How long can you play before experiencing exacerbation of these symptoms?

What about typing or other avtivities that use independent finger activity. Any problems?

Has anyone suggested your seeing an A.R.T therapist (Active release therapy, the only type of phsical therapist that can actually alleviate these symptoms)?

ola!

i've just saw new replies here..well..
i haven't played for a month and a half, these days i'm slowly back on track- although I'm playing only slow bach and I did only 1 hour in a day.

prescripted therapy wasn't enough, and I went to private clinic to get second opinion. happily, my aunt works there as physiotherapist - otherwise I couldn't afford it to myself.
and I can say privat clinic is million times better then usual physiotherapists.

ibuprofen and ice massage were piece of crap, excuse my language. if I continued just with them, I'd never get better..

new therapy was electric therapy (can't translate into english), special excercises, what virtuostic1 said, for strenghtening muscles, pool relaxing and the most important, therapy with swiss dolor clast. it works on pneumatic thingy, again I'm sorry, but can't explain in english, but try some googling.
it causes pain, but it sucessfully speed up recovery. if I didn't have this therapy, I wouldn't play for couple of months...now, after a month-two, I'll be more-less ready to have audition for conservatory. (but I had all repertoire needed done before, just need Bach)

from my experiece, the worst thing was..umm...kind of depression and feeling hopeless. few people understood me and I can say this is devastating physically for pianist, but mentally is even worse.

now I'm looking forward to happy ending and I deeply believe this was lesson which had to teach me something 

if there's more injured pianists, or people curious about this, let me know here or drop pm

p.s. I also bought a book ''what every pianist should know about the body'', if somebody had read it, what are your opinions about it?

[virtuosic1]

Poof

[thalbergmad]

Hey Thal. You've got a powerlifter here too. What's your personal best and bodyweight? Does handling the heavy iron affect your technical ability at the keyboard?

I have never mixed the two together really. I Spent most of my 20's and early 30's in the gym and did not really touch the piano. When i got injured, i stopped the heavy stuff and started to play again.

My best dead lift was 300 kilos and i think i weighed about 100 kilos at the time. the bench press and squat are too sad to mention.

I am 42 now, so all of that is way in the past. Now, i probably weigh 300 kilos and could probably dead lift 100 kilos. So everything is in reverse

Thal

[virtuosic1]

I have never mixed the two together really. I Spent most of my 20's and early 30's in the gym and did not really touch the piano. When i got injured, i stopped the heavy stuff and started to play again.

My best dead lift was 300 kilos and i think i weighed about 100 kilos at the time. the bench press and squat are too sad to mention.

I am 42 now, so all of that is way in the past. Now, i probably weigh 300 kilos and could probably dead lift 100 kilos. So everything is in reverse

Thal

Thal, at 42, you can still have your best lifts AHEAD of you, even have time to develop an impressive bench if you get back in there 2 to 3 days a week and train instinctively. Matter of fact, the best gains (without gear) can be made in your 40s simply because now, at this age, you are totally in touch with your body and know how to avoid injury (the single most detrimental impediment to gains) and fatigue.
650 is an awesome deadlift at 220 pounds! A major accomplishment. Anyone DL'ing triple BW can number himself among very, very few.
Oddly enough, most built for pulling find the the very same genetic predispositions that aid them in pulling, work against them when pushing. I know very, very few strength athletes that are equally both awesome pullers and pushers.
I'm the opposite. I'm real strong on the bench, using ultra-heavy poundages on chest and shoulder pushing exercises, incline flyes, and skull crushers, but get weak in the knees even LOOKING at an olympic bar sitting on the floor with 3 plates per side. Shrugs? No problem. Up to 8 plates per side, starting off the pins in the rack, but off the floor, I'm dead in the water! I can bench roughly twice the amount I can DL. You need a super lower back to DL anywhere near what you did! Mine is weak, genetically, and I've tried to stengthen it to improve my DL, but it's very prone to injury and overuse.

You can get back into into Thal. 42 is nothing. Within 2 years, with just a minimum of days per week, say 2, and the right combo of diet, nutrition, prudent training, and rest, you can be right back to your peak.

[pianistimo]

he switched recently to mountaineering.

[virtuosic1]

he switched recently to mountaineering.

All the better. After the climb, he can have a loaded Olympic bar waiting for him at the top of the mountain.

[thalbergmad]

at this age, you are totally in touch with your body

Yeh, I can't touch my toes coz my stomach is in the way.

You speak very wise words sir and you have given me a little boost. Due to a knee injury, dead lifts and squats are out, but i see no reason why i should not do a good bench.

I just hope it does not affect my banjo playing.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

All the better. After the climb, he can have a loaded Olympic bar waiting for him at the top of the mountain.

According to pianistimo, i will need oxygen cylinders at 10,000 feet.

Thal

[virtuosic1]

Yeh, I can't touch my toes coz my stomach is in the way.

You speak very wise words sir and you have given me a little boost. Due to a knee injury, dead lifts and squats are out, but i see no reason why i should not do a good bench.

I just hope it does not affect my banjo playing.

Thal

Remember to stack one or two 45 pound plates right where you place your feet (right under them as a platform for your feet) when benching. It'll alleviate any undue pressure on your knees when instinctively you "dig into" the floor on the positive phase of each rep!