Piano Forum



Does Rachmaninoff Touch Your Heart?
Today, with smartwatches and everyday electronics, it is increasingly common to measure training results, heart rate, calorie consumption, and overall health. But monitoring heart rate of pianists and audience can reveal interesting insights on several other aspects within the musical field. Read more >>

Topic: G. Catoire, Prelude. Op. 17, No. 1 in G#m  (Read 4536 times)

Offline rachfan

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3026
G. Catoire, Prelude. Op. 17, No. 1 in G#m
on: February 02, 2009, 11:59:23 PM
Today I'm posting the "Prelude, Op. 17, No. 1" in G#m of the late romantic Russian composer Georgy Catoire (1861-1926).  The four preludes of Op. 17 were published c. 1903.  The main influences on Catoire were Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Scriabin and Faure.  I hope you'll enjoy this music.  (Previously I posted here the Preludes No. 2 in G and No. 4 in B flat.)

Piano: Baldwin Model L Artist Grand (6'3")

Recording: Digital, Korg MR-1000 DSD

Comments welcome
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline goldentone

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1689
Re: G. Catoire, Prelude. Op. 17, No. 1 in G#m
Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 09:03:03 PM
I liked this very much.  Excellent playing, Rachfan!  I think this is a unique piece.  I like how it ends. 
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline rachfan

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3026
Re: G. Catoire, Prelude. Op. 17, No. 1 in G#m
Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 11:19:19 PM
Hi goldentone,

Thanks for your kind comments!  I like this prelude a lot, feeling it as ultra-romantic music; yet some hear it as impressionistic too.  Either way, it's splendid.  The coda is truly beautiful, as you point out.  Often Catoire opts for a quiet, lyrical coda, especially if the climax of a piece as been impressive, as is the case here.  The fading ending provides a really nice contrast.
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline rob47

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 997
Re: G. Catoire, Prelude. Op. 17, No. 1 in G#m
Reply #3 on: February 12, 2009, 04:05:35 PM
rachfan just listened to this piece - it's a good one, thanks for posting.

I've never heard it before but my first thought was that your phrasing and shaping (which is very good) would be even more effective at a faster speed. But again I don't know this piece at all(what is the tempo marking?).  Either way I'm glad i clicked the link and got to hear this

peace!

rob
"Phenomenon 1 is me"
-Alexis Weissenberg

Offline rachfan

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3026
Re: G. Catoire, Prelude. Op. 17, No. 1 in G#m
Reply #4 on: February 12, 2009, 06:15:47 PM
Hi Rob,

Thanks for listening.  The tempo marking is "poco allegro, sempre molto rubato".  (Don't ask me why Catoire didn't use the term allegretto.)  I recorded the piece faster on a couple of takes, but didn't like the result nearly as well, as the increased speed seemed to detract from the rubato and ultra-romantic character of the music.  Also, it's a difficult piece to play and something has to be held in reserve for the climax which is played agitato. So I leaned more toward the  moderato side of allegro.  As Josef Hofmann once said, "... consult the state of your technique and your own feeling for what is musically right in deciding upon the speed of the piece." 

If you haven't listened to the Preludes Nos. 2 and 4 yet, here are the links:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,32148.0.html

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,32614.0.html

I think you'd enjoy these every bit as much.  Right now, I'm working on Prelude No. 3.  Catoire is, unfortunately, obscure and neglected, yet an extraordinary late romantic composer.

Thanks again.
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline naturlaut

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: G. Catoire, Prelude. Op. 17, No. 1 in G#m
Reply #5 on: February 13, 2009, 12:55:10 AM
Nice.  I like the whole set of Op. 17 Preludes.  They are early works, and while the influences of Tchaikovsky/Faure are there, they are already recognizable Catoire. 

Regarding the tempo issue, I don't think it's not so much of speed per se, but how you feel the flow of the music should be.  If you feel comfortable at this speed and you could express what you wanted to, then stick with it.  You may change your mind later as the piece matures in your mind though.

Offline rachfan

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3026
Re: G. Catoire, Prelude. Op. 17, No. 1 in G#m
Reply #6 on: February 13, 2009, 02:46:05 AM
Hi naturlaut,

Thanks for your very nice comments.  Yes, I think even as early as Op. 12, Catoire was coming into his own idiom or voice.  I've run into one listener who considers Catoire to be urbane, sincere, and a fine craftsman, but whose music is not memorable.  I very much disagree with that assessment.  I'm also glad to say that everyone else has been quite taken by these compositions.  And I'm very pleased to be making a small contribution in making this wonderful music better known on these piano websites.

Yes, you're entirely correct.  The term I was searching for is indeed the "flow" of the music.  At the tempo I selected for my interpretation, the flow seems ideal for shaping the phrasing, rubato, and nuances--at least to me.  This music, like that of Faure, is difficult to characterize exactly.  Some say they hear it as romantic, others as impressionistic, and still others as mysterious.  To that, I would add that it often strikes me as expressionistic too. Maybe it has all of those qualities.  These pieces, in my opinion, cannot be rushed.  They need to unfold in their splendor, and the listener needs to be able to savor and luxuriate in this "new music". 

Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert