If only we could have a massive multiplicity of alistair alistairs
Maybe the final result of all this will be attention drawn to a bunch of pianists who made excellent recordings that are not so well know.
It's also been reported in today's The Daily Telegraph
Dear cmg,Sorry to hear about your disappointment. Here are two thoughts. When you saidYou could have said more clearly that you had email exchange that you believed to have been with Ms. Hatto. I would love to know more about your relationship with Carlo Grante.
Barrington-Coupe, I'd also like to add, is a man now in his 80s. He is and has been ill himself for some time. Is it that probable that an ailing, elderly man taking care of an elderly, ailing pianist-wife would have the time, energy and resources to perpetuate the greatest fraud in the history of recorded classical music? Furthermore, he has never been known to be the most accomplished of recording engineers. He runs a shoestring operation out of Cambridge and comes from a "budget-label" background. We're not talking Sony, BIS or Hyperion here, you know.
Hell, why don't I just time shrink some Gilels recordings and trumpet Robert Scrarfo as the greatest pianist nobody has heard of. ...The truly baffling thing about this whole affair is the amateurism with which the scam was executed.
There is nothing in the Daily Sport.Thal
The more I think about the critics the more irritated I get. They showered these recordings with platitudes, saying they were "benchmark" interpretations of standard repertoire that has been recorded thousands of times, that they were the product of the greatest pianist of the 20th century, that they were definitive.
Whatever the critics may have said, the fact remains that the expression "standard repertoire that has been recorded thousands of times" is hopelessly wrong when applied to the Chopin/Godowsky Studies which, as I wrote earlier, have only ever been recorded complete by three pianists and played complte by one more (besides Hatto, that is - assuming that she also did so). If only those works WERE standard repertoire for pianists!...Best,Alistair
I met Carlo in Miami in the early 1990s. He was close friends with a doctoral student studying with Ivan Davis at that time at the U of M, where he also studied with Ivan. The doctoral student was and is a longtime friend of mine, as is Ivan, and she introduced me to Carlo. I socialized with Carlo during that period in his Southwest Dade County apartment (groundfloor) and in my friend's home nearby. My recollection of him is that of a brillliant, kind man. A world-class pianist then, as he is now. I hope that satisfies your curiosity.
I didn't bother to qualify my email communications with Joyce Hatto and her husband in terms that would indicate that they were perhaps fraudulent and, therefore, to be discounted as evidence that I had been in touch with her. It never crossed my mind until I read this latest attack on the authenticity of her recordings that perhaps everything about her was a hoax. As I'm sure you know, most of us have email relationships with individuals who are actually who they purport to be. For me to assume that Joyce Hatto's emails were a fabrication by somebody else is not the kind of assumptions I routinely make. I'm sure you don't either.
I mentioned Carlo because his name has now been insinuated into this alleged scandal. Having met him years ago and spent time with him socially, I can't imagine that he would be anything but horrified at being implicated, even, as it is, quite innocently. I found -- and still find -- this rumor-mongering to be nauseating. The evidence of a hoax is persuasive but hardly conclusive. What disgusts me is the assumption that the verdict is already in and the Hatto recording enterprise a fake.
To think that And now the NY Times has weighed in? I'm unimpressed. The Times has recently been taken to task for erroneous reporting on the Iraqi war and their notorious false reports about Saddam's "mass weapons of destruction."
What irritates me is that those who are convinced of this hoax are so insulting to people who have had faith that Hatto is the "real thing." Ivan Davis, to those of you who may not know much about him, is one of the most extrodinary musicians alive today. He is, of course, a brilliant pianist and teacher, but also an extremely intelligent man who knows more about the piano repertoire than you or I or anyone else on this forum. And I don't say that lightly. His knowledge is literally encyclopedic. His recording collection rivals any university library. His personal relationships with the greatest pianists of our time and familiarity with their distinctive styles of playing would put him the perfect position to spot fraud in Hatto's recordings. He has spent his own share of time in recording studies and is more than familiar with the current technology. Could he be defrauded? Possible, but not probable.
Barrington-Coupe has commented that the latest Ravel recording, done in the last weeks of Hatto's life, had to be remastered to eliminate audible moans on some of the tracks (particularly "La Valse" -- which, interestingly, is Hatto's own original transcription containing passages from the orchestral score that don't appear in the transcription).
The moans were Hatto's who was suffering horribly from cancer in the end. And the moans arose from her pain. Barrington-Coupe felt compelled to edit these out. Hatto, it has been reported for years now, refused everything but aspirin to control her pain. She wanted to keep a clear head to make her recordings in the last years of her life. It was the goal that undoubtedly enabled her to survive her particularly insidious form of cancer for so many years. Barrington-Coupe, I'd also like to add, is a man now in his 80s. He is and has been ill himself for some time. Is it that probable that an ailing, elderly man taking care of an elderly, ailing pianist-wife would have the time, energy and resources to perpetuate the greatest fraud in the history of recorded classical music? Furthermore, he has never been known to be the most accomplished of recording engineers. He runs a shoestring operation out of Cambridge and comes from a "budget-label" background. We're not talking Sony, BIS or Hyperion here, you know.
For me, all I have to do is listen to Hatto's recording of the Prokofiev "War Sonatas." I love these pieces and have literally dozens of recordings by dozens of great pianists. I've worked on all of them and studied them with some very fine pianists. Just listen to the Eighth, in particular. I defy anyone to find a commercial recording out there that rivals it. It's transcendental playing that is beyond rare. I'd rather listen to this "hoax" recording than one by any other pianist on earth. And that goes for many of her other recordings. If she's a "hoax," then "Viva la Hoax."
Right, but the site which exposed the Chopin Mazurka fraud said they had collected "1,500" recordings of the Mazurkas. Had she really recorded the Chopin-Godowsky as we are to believe, it would no doubt be incredible, but the critics found everything she "did" to be the gold standard:"...there is no doubt in my mind that hers is this cycle's [Transcendental etudes] most technically accomplished, stylistically perceptive, and musically satisfying traversal on disc since Claudio Arrau's. It has all the surface bravura Freddy Kempf musters up, but with infinitely more culture and brainpower behind the proverbial wheel.""...an amazingly light-fingered Mazeppa, where the middle-register double notes and outer melodic leaps emerge in strain-free perspective. Rarely has this piece sounded less clattery and notey. Hatto's quicksilver, ultra-supple Feux Follets easily matches Richter, Nojima, and Kissin for double note proficiency and poetry (her choices about when and when not to pedal are worth a dozen expensive piano lessons)."(We'll probably be seeing fallout from this: "You could argue that the F minor etude's cascading triplets go too fast for comfort, but they never race out of Hatto's control.")"Her interpretations are unlike most I've heard, offering many singular insights and surprises." This referring to the complete works of Ravel, allegedly recorded in two days..."And without violating the letter, Hatto somehow always manages to leave a fresh, individual imprint upon everything she touches." (also Ravel)My point is that critics were trying to convince us that these recordings put everyone else to shame, that they were brand-new interpretations the likes of which have never heard before, and so on. In my fantasy land these same critics will go back to the original source for these interpretations and shower them with the same praise. Of course this will never happen, but even if it did, these critics, who obviously were judging more on a dramatic life story then observation of the music, have already discredited themselves beyond repair.Walter Ramsey
I have still seen no credible eveidence that the recordings claiming to be hers are fake. I think the discussion here is distasteful. If it must go on could it transfer to another thread.
The point at issue here where critics and CD buyers are concerned is that(a) the technology exists for anyone to do the kind of thing that WB-C is now accused of doing and(b) most people won't know, so there is never any guarantee that what it says on the packaging is what's inside.Whatever the outcome of this forthcoming case, the eventual fallout will surely be that many people will become infinitely more suspicious of the classical recording industry and many critics will be a lot more wary, with the result that we may find the the recoded music criticism industry will become a fast depleting one...Best,Alistair
Amen. It's only a matter of time. Digital enhancment and alteration of photographs and film have become commonplace. "What's real" and "what's not" have almost become questions that go begging so long for an answer it's almost not worth asking. The virtual seems to be superceding reality. Brave new world. Well, "new" but hardly "brave." If you'll please excuse me, I REALLY need a drink.
One possible good to come out of skepticism towards digital recordings...is a possible renewed interest live concert performance.
Is it possible that Carlo Grante, Mr. Simon, and others were actually stealing HERS recordings? OK, OK...The disturbing thing about the story are the critics. Just think, they present Mrs. Hatto as “the most extraordinary recordings I have ever heard...”, while were saying nothing about original artists, which shows worth of our modern critics.
fakery might have attached to the Sergio Fiorentino recordings on the same label.
Heh, at least Fiorentino fans can sleep easy tonight knowing their idol *did* in fact exist...and he *could* actually play the piano... &mode=related&search=But yeah, incredibly scary that serious artists like Fiorentino will inevitably come under suspicion for this fraud.
The disturbing thing about the story are the critics. Just think, they present Mrs. Hatto as “the most extraordinary recordings I have ever heard...”, while were saying nothing about original artists, which shows worth of our modern critics.
It ain't over yet, folks! Stay tuned and open-minded.
marik I couldn't agree with you more. The Laszlo Simon Mazeppa especially was impressive. I don't know if the same critics need to review these more obscure disks, since their platitudes all proved to be empty, but these discs deserve to be heard and noticed, and hopefully that is one positive thing that can come out of all this mess. Even people like Ivan Davis, who talks about the Hatto Transcendental Etudes on his website, should be willing to apply those same comments to the pianists who were truly playing (mostly Simon). Not just willing - we need to see it happen.Walter Ramsey
Well, for what this is worth to those already convinced of fraud in the Hatto affair, I spoke last night with Ivan Davis, expecting that he might be horrified and mortified at the lastest developments. He just laughed. His faith in the veracity of the Hatto recordings remains unshaken.
Interesting,Every big artist had a very distinguish style--Gilels, Horowitz, Rachmaninov, Gould, etc. You can recognise any of them from two notes.Heck, you can recognise Hamelin or even, excuse me, Ashkenazi or Bronfman.Just wondering what was Mrs. Hatto's style?
Also, it turns out on the supposed Hatto "Encores" disc, two tracks were ripped off directly from Hamelin, with no manipulation in the speed at all. How could anyone imagine getting away with that, since the very consumers that buy Hamelin's discs would be all over Hatto's?!
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/newsMainTemplate.asp?storyID=2765&newssectionID=1A "confession" of sorts.
Topic: Joyce Hatto 