Is it really necessary to practice scales?, do the really help technique

[rovis77]

Is it really necessary to practice scales?, do the really help technique?. How much should you practice them per day and how?. thanks a lot!!

[faulty_damper]

You only need to learn the most efficient and effective movements to perform scales.  Once that is learned, you don't have to practice them.

[dima_76557]

Is it really necessary to practice scales?

I think they are indispensable for virtually everything you do on the instrument (just like all standard formulas in all keys), but they are traditionally taught in a way that has nothing to do with music which is very sad.

[timothy42b]

According to Leimer and Gieseking, scales are the best way to learn to really listen, and it is not until you master that skill that the rest of your improvement can take off.

So you must play scales, but HS only, and with extreme care for evenness of rhythm and evenness of volume.

According to Abby Whiteside, the benefits of scales accrue to more advanced players and beginners should wait. 

[awesom_o]

Is it really necessary to practice scales?

Is it really necessary for what?

[mjames]

Is it really necessary for what?

IS IT REALLY NECESSARY TO PRACTICE SCALES?

[awesom_o]

IS IT REALLY NECESSARY TO PRACTICE SCALES?

Really necessary for what? 

[mjames]

Really necessary for what? 

IS-IT-REALLY-NECESSARY-TO-PRACTICE-SCALES?


I can't shout any louder than this.

[liszt1022]

/\ Then please understand he is using "for," not " to."

[ted]

Awesom_o's question is very much to the point, it seems to me. It all depends on whether the sort of music you want to play would benefit by practising them. Last year a friend teased me that I could not play smooth scales in the usual up and down way so I practised for a few weeks until I could. However, bits of my improvisation started sounding like Czerny studies - no rhythm, no life - so I went back to my old, rough, group based way of playing them, and all keyboard partitions.

So for me, no, not at all necessary, at least not in the usual way, but for others of more traditional bent they might be just the job. I use them of course, they are just arbitrary keyboard patterns after all, but as Dima implies, I have to use them, and all formations, in different ways every day to provide musical interest, else I feel I might as well be playing a typewriter. Life is too short for that.

[iansinclair]

I would have to say yes... and then promptly qualify that by saying that that doesn't mean that what you have to play is scales.  How's that again?  What I have found works for me (as they say, your mileage may vary) is to select pieces which have scales (or arpeggios.  Or trills.  Or...) and learn them, working on both the technical aspects (such as beautiful even floating scales in perfect legato or whatever) and the musicality of the piece at the same time.  That way, although I would be the first to admit that I don't have as much technical virtuosity as might be desired, my playing (I hope) is more musical than mechanical.

At least I like to think so...

[m1469]

No, I don't think they are absolutely necessary in the sense that a person could not play the piano without them.  I used to play the piano without them, in fact.  Personally, though, I have not found anything else that precisely serves the purposes I use and have used them for, although there are some other things that I find helpful, too (but, then again, those are based on scales, like 5-finger patterns, for one example.  I am craving those, lately).

[mjames]

/\ Then please understand he is using "for," not " to."

Omg

[awesom_o]

IS-IT-REALLY-NECESSARY-TO-PRACTICE-SCALES?


I can't shout any louder than this.

I was hoping we could have a civil discussion free of shouting! 

What's extremely important is HOW scales are practiced.

You can enforce good habits through scale practice, or you can enforce bad habits.

You can neglect the study of scales entirely in favour of working only on repertoire.

Again, like everything in music, what matters is HOW you work, not WHAT you work on.

 

[timothy42b]

I was hoping we could have a civil discussion free of shouting! 

What's extremely important is HOW scales are practiced.



 

That is what I think too.

And how scales are practiced depends on the purpose.

And that implies you know the purpose.  But at least 95% of the people who insist you must play scales are pretty vague about the purpose, so they really can't tell you how. 

And that leads to abominations like that contrary pattern scale required for the exams in one of those grading systems. 

[m1469]

Again, like everything in music, what matters is HOW you work, not WHAT you work on.

It's both, together.  They both matter at the same time.

[awesom_o]

And that leads to abominations like that contrary pattern scale required for the exams in one of those grading systems. 

I love formula patterns! They're amazingly fun to practice.

[outin]

I think just as almost anything else, it is more necessary to one than it is for another. Depending on what one is aiming for, what skills one already happens to possess and how much practice one needs to maintain such skills.

Similarly they can help one's technique, if one does it the right way and if one has something to improve that can be improved by doing them.

So generally speaking I don't find it a very convincing argument to say pianist X said he needs to do something or finds something useful.

I can answer for myself: It would be quite useful for me to practice scales more. Which does not mean that I do. So it's not necessary in the sense that I cannot go on without doing it, only that there will be different consequences if I don't.

[pianoplunker]

Is it really necessary to practice scales?, do the really help technique?. How much should you practice them per day and how?. thanks a lot!!

Scales do help technique and theory and I think one should practice scales enough to know them at any given time but not necessarily all the time. Scales are great for working on things like one hand louder or softer than the other, staccato, FF, pp, accenting on different beats , evenness, metronome timing, etc  .   You can achieve those things while learning real music, but practicing scales lets you focus more on what your fingers , wrist, forearm, are doing. 

[dima_76557]

I like the analogy with the function of grammar in language learning in the following article:
https://ashleykjohnson.com/2012/08/28/how-playing-scales-is-like-learning-grammar/

P.S.: I don't think that fluent scales and other patterns are the source of a good technique; they're the result. It's the same with grammar. However, since I don't want to end up in the (very funny, by the way!) "Your Grammar Sucks" series on YouTube, I do quite a lot of systematic work on English grammar until I can dream the rules and I will no longer need to repeat them because they will be part of my system. Boring? No, not at all. It's all about how creative you are about it.

[m1469]

I don't think that fluent scales and other patterns are the source of a good technique; they're the result.

This is true about playing anything at all.  Ultimately, playing the piano at all is simply a realization of what is (already) within.  Similarly, being able to stand is not truly the result of trying or learning to do so when we are tiny; it is the result of the human body being intrinsically designed, built, and equipped to stand - the ability causes us to do so.  Playing is about doing those pianistic activities which bring the principles of playing to light within consciousness, allowing the player to utilize them freely and at will in basic forms (let's say standing) and in permutations (walking, running, jumping, etc).  

[danthecomposer]

mjames, don't be a pillock.

You were asked a very clever question so that the discussion could expand in your favour, for your, and others, benefit.

Is it necessary TO practice scales?
What is practising scales necessary FOR?

A very clear difference if you would get off your high-horse and focus a little.  If you play the piano with such impatience as you demonstrate here, I suggest giving up immediately and taking up the triangle (an instrument for which scales are not as important).

It is necessary TO practice scales because your finger independence and piano awareness improves.

What practising scales is necessary FOR is an improved familiarity with various 'places' on the piano (using particular mixes of black and white notes).  You also become more able to play pieces in what are considered more 'complicated' keys (with more sharps/flats) because you know that key's major and perhaps minor scale (and maybe one or two others, like the diminished).

Practicing scales is also necessary FOR passing exams if you wish to go that route, for composing new pieces and for understanding connections between melodies of great works.

So,

Is it necessary TO practice scales?  Yes.

What for?  See above blurb.

[timothy42b]

Some of the benefits of scales are best realized by doing them with full concentration.

Scales are almost impossible to do with full concentration, so many of the benefits are wasted.  But if one really tried to concentrate, it might be worthwhile. 

Reflect a bit on whether you can do scales mindlessly while watching soaps. 

[dima_76557]

Reflect a bit on whether you can do scales mindlessly while watching soaps.

Soaps? That's quite a challenge for several reasons (I'm not Liberace, you know). How about all seasons of Sponge Bob so I can have at least some fun?

[danthecomposer]

Indeed.  Liszt read Shakespeare to pass the time whilst doing drills.