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Topic: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige? (Read 2592 times)

crimson

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Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

on: June 18, 2022, 03:24:17 AM

I decided to finally learn one of the Liszt transcendental etudes, and my teacher is giving me the freedom to choose from any of the twelve. I ended up listening to the full set and I'm finding myself in a bit of a hard spot between Mazeppa and Chasse-neige. Can't really decide which one I like more, but Mazeppa looks like it will be relatively easier for me to play than Chasse-neige, which in contrast looks like it will give me carpal tunnel. I don't really have much else to go off of other than first impressions and some sight reading, so can anyone who has played both share their thoughts on each etude? I know that these pieces will obviously be quite different for every pianist who plays them, but hopefully some information will help me make a decision

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anacrusis

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #1 on: June 18, 2022, 11:37:32 PM

Some consider Mazeppa the hardest of the set. I'm not sure I agree with that though.

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crimson

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #2 on: June 19, 2022, 06:27:32 AM

Mazeppa seems quite exhausting to play, with it being 8 minutes and most of it pretty loud. But I personally don't think it compares to Feux Follets.

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symphonicdance

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #3 on: July 15, 2022, 01:59:53 AM

Be brave. Learn both at the same time.

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michaellmc

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #4 on: October 20, 2022, 02:44:17 PM

Having just learned Mazeppa recently I can say two things: 1) if you do that successfully, you are basically ready to learn anything else in the piano repertoire minus a few extremes and 2) it is hard, but there is a lot of repetitive patterns and nothing that some slow practice cannot iron out. It was a wonderful experience of being scared out of my mind at the beginning (feeling like you are naked and strapped to a horse perhaps) and then eventually triumphing (especially with that last section being labeled by Liszt as "He finally falls...and rises a king!")

Can't recommend Mazeppa enough! Ride on, my friend!

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robertus

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #5 on: October 22, 2022, 02:39:04 AM

Definitely Mazeppa! It's not actually very hard, and it will impress people (especially pianists!) no end.

A tip. There are four version of this in existence- the early (easiest) the second (from the hard version of the Transcendental Etudes), another version in between the two (my favorite one), and the version which everyone plays.

When I play this, I sometimes take bits from the other version (not the ultra-easy one, of course), to suit my own strengths and disposition. Sometimes, the earlier versions are more effective.

Another- ditch the consecutive 4/2 fingering for the thirds- use regular, legato third finger, and you'll be able to play it way faster.

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lelle

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #6 on: October 23, 2022, 09:48:49 PM

Liszt did explicitly note the repeated 42 fingering for a reason though. Changing this fingering to serve your own ends does not serve the music Liszt wrote.

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ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #7 on: October 23, 2022, 10:25:33 PM

Quote from: lelle on October 23, 2022, 09:48:49 PM

Liszt did explicitly note the repeated 42 fingering for a reason though.

Yes, he knew exactly what he was doing. 42 repeated is indeed harder, but it both ensures that you don't fall into the trap of a slovenly legato blur and that the touch is changed and you get something more enforcedly rhythmic and mimicking the horse's gallop (assuming, of course that you have the technique to play it with 42 42).

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robertus

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #8 on: October 25, 2022, 01:59:18 AM

Quote from: ronde_des_sylphes on October 23, 2022, 10:25:33 PM

Yes, he knew exactly what he was doing. 42 repeated is indeed harder, but it both ensures that you don't fall into the trap of a slovenly legato blur and that the touch is changed and you get something more enforcedly rhythmic and mimicking the horse's gallop (assuming, of course that you have the technique to play it with 42 42).

Ha, ha! That's very true. Liszt certainy did know what he was doing. However, I play to make an impression on the audience. I find that using a 'legato' fingering gives me more security and speed.

If I was recording it, or playing it for a competition or exam, I'd probably use Liszt's original fingering.

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lelle

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #9 on: October 31, 2022, 10:23:20 PM

Quote from: robertus on October 25, 2022, 01:59:18 AM

Ha, ha! That's very true. Liszt certainy did know what he was doing. However, I play to make an impression on the audience. I find that using a 'legato' fingering gives me more security and speed.

If I was recording it, or playing it for a competition or exam, I'd probably use Liszt's original fingering.

Why do you play to make an impression on people? To what end, to what purpose?

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krncandi

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #10 on: November 03, 2022, 02:41:30 AM

Mazeppa and Feux Follet are arguably the most difficult of the set. Chasse-Neige is miles easier than the 2. I'm a very advanced pianist myself but Mazeppa is very very difficult and exhausting to learn and perform. I'd recommend starting with Eroica, Wilde Jagd, Ricordanza or Harmonies du Soir to start with and to see how difficult these works can be

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davidarditti

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #11 on: November 05, 2022, 08:22:13 PM

Mazeppa is musically very simple and contained. It s also extremely good and impressive, so I’d recommend doing it. The 2-4 fingering is the correct Lisztian technique and it creates part of the character of the piece and should not be changed.

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c720lp

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #12 on: July 24, 2023, 04:51:02 AM

I have only learned comprehensively preludio (freebee), eroica, and chasse neige. I’ve tried at least a few pages of all the others except for feux follet and Mazeppa. What I will say about chasse neige is that it is so structurally simple that it’s not difficult at all to memorize. So you can immediately start focusing on just training technique. The voicing and duration of the tremolos does take a lot of time, and the leaps require a good amount of repetition, but for me at least, a good amount of repetition is all it takes. All the chromatics are easy and line up well, as does almost everything else in the etude. It can be tiring though. That’s just my 2 cents and everyone has different strengths. But after reading your guys thoughts on Mazeppa in this post I think I’ll learn that one next! Thanks and happy practicing.

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cuberdrift

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #13 on: August 31, 2023, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: robertus on October 22, 2022, 02:39:04 AM

Definitely Mazeppa! It's not actually very hard, and it will impress people (especially pianists!) no end.

A tip. There are four version of this in existence- the early (easiest) the second (from the hard version of the Transcendental Etudes), another version in between the two (my favorite one), and the version which everyone plays.

When I play this, I sometimes take bits from the other version (not the ultra-easy one, of course), to suit my own strengths and disposition. Sometimes, the earlier versions are more effective.

Another- ditch the consecutive 4/2 fingering for the thirds- use regular, legato third finger, and you'll be able to play it way faster.

And then there's Stradal's crazy transcription of the symphonic poem.

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piabanoch

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Re: Liszt: Mazeppa or Chasse-neige?

Reply #14 on: November 09, 2023, 06:32:55 PM

Do 4 2 4 2 fingering. I would go for Mazeppa i think it's much easier to sight read and it's very fun to play and you will enjoy to play it in public but i think Chasse-Neige is the best trascendental etudes for the emotion in this piece. Anyway in Chasse-Neige you will not have carpal tunnel because the tremolos are not very hard if you play them slow

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