Alkan=Overrated Difficulty

[opus10no2]

No, if you look close enough at anything, it seems complex.

Look at the bigger picture, by and large - digital speed is the primary factor in technical ability.

EVERYTHING else, every other ability, whether it be dynamic, control, anything - it all hinges on finger speed.

If you wish a point to be proven, let us set up a challenge.

[bflatminor24]

No. You're wrong. Speed is not paramount. That's childish logic, broskies. But don't worry, you're not a bad person. You're just wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Don't worry about it man.

If you want to challenge me, I accept (even though I don't know what kind of challenge).

 

[mephisto]

I like your how you give so good arguments

[opus10no2]

No. You're wrong. Speed is not paramount. That's childish logic, broskies. But don't worry, you're not a bad person. You're just wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Don't worry about it man.

If you want to challenge me, I accept (even though I don't know what kind of challenge).

 

We could use either -

1 - a tape measure, a camera.

or perhaps more appropriately -

2 - a chopin etude, recording equipment, and a stopwatch.

[bflatminor24]

Use it for what? Can't you see that speed is not the ultimate test of difficulty? Could you play the first movement of the Scriabin Sonata-Fantaisie? Probably not. And even if you somehow learned the notes, I bet you anything you would play it very poorly. Prove me wrong.

~Max~

[opus10no2]

Since I have no desire to learn that piece, lets just both settle for a shoter piece that we both would wish to learn?

I am anticipating pwnage.

[bflatminor24]

The point is, there is much difficulty without speed. Some incredibly slow pieces are very difficult! You have already stated that EVERYTHING boils down to difficulty from speed.

Members of Pianostreet, do you agree that speed is the only factor of difficulty?

Fine - you choose a piece, I'll have it done.

~Max~

[kriskicksass]

Actually, I do agree. The primary factor in the production of sound is the speed of the finger's descent onto the piano's keys. Even if the notes are passing slowly, a finger must come down with many varying speeds in order to produce varied volumes and articulations. As such, I would put finger speed as the most important aspect of technique if I had to choose one.

Disclaimer: I personally believe that there is no one aspect of technique that is the most important. You can have the most agile and flexible fingers in the world, but if you don't know how to use your arms, torso, or legs you're still likely to be unable to play anything well at all.

[opus10no2]

You can have the most agile and flexible fingers in the world, but if you don't know how to use your arms, torso, or legs you're still likely to be unable to play anything well at all.

I'd like to see how a woman would use her inner labia in a performance of a Chopin Etude.

Actually, I do agree. The primary factor in the production of sound is the speed of the finger's descent onto the piano's keys. Even if the notes are passing slowly, a finger must come down with many varying speeds in order to produce varied volumes and articulations. As such, I would put finger speed as the most important aspect of technique if I had to choose one.

True, and by and large, dynamic control is only a major difficulty if taken at speeds which render the passage hard to control dynamically.

The point is, there is much difficulty without speed. Some incredibly slow pieces are very difficult! You have already stated that EVERYTHING boils down to difficulty from speed.

Members of Pianostreet, do you agree that speed is the only factor of difficulty?

Fine - you choose a piece, I'll have it done.

~Max~

I didn't say EVERY difficulty is based on speed, just by and large - and other difficulties that 'appear' to not be about speed - control, accuracy, rhythm - they almost always all come back to being about speed.

Glad to see you'd take up the challenge.

The piece I choose is -

Chopin Etude Opus10No.2

[bflatminor24]

Alright. In this etude, evenness and control of dynamics are more important than speed, and in the better recordings (Cortot, Perahia), you'll notice they aren't as fast as some others. But you'll agree that they sound better.

Man, it's cool to be wrong sometimes. Just recognize.

~Max~

[opus10no2]

what?!

I mean a duel, MONO A MONO, me vs. you a BATTLE TO THE DEATH, let us both join swords in the 10/2, learn it and record it, and so shall I.

Where the flying dismemberedcorpse do you come up with the idea that 'In this etude, evenness and control of dynamics are more important than speed'?
It's also more than a BIT obvious that evennes and dynamic control in this piece are dependent upon digital dexterity and - you guessed it - SPEED.

I WILL NOT AGREE THAT THEY SOUND BETTER, I WILL NOT AGREE TO HAVING PENILE REDUCTION SURGERY!

I have never been wrong in my life, I wouldn't have a clue what it feels like, I believe you find it cool, but as has been proven thus far this evening - our tastes differ immensely.
I shall say nothing of our respective intellects...just that you are a lesser mortal than I.

[ramseytheii]

Actually, I do agree. The primary factor in the production of sound is the speed of the finger's descent onto the piano's keys. Even if the notes are passing slowly, a finger must come down with many varying speeds in order to produce varied volumes and articulations. As such, I would put finger speed as the most important aspect of technique if I had to choose one.

Disclaimer: I personally believe that there is no one aspect of technique that is the most important. You can have the most agile and flexible fingers in the world, but if you don't know how to use your arms, torso, or legs you're still likely to be unable to play anything well at all.

I love how your disclaimer completely contradicts, in the same vocabulary, the point you were trying to make a paragraph earlier.  It's very pianoforum!

Personally I think you are looking at this in a bit of a skewed general way, because when the previous person said "speed is the only difficult thing," they were really talking about playing fast.  And since 99.9% of pianists don't actually work to control the speed at which fingers come down, I would say this is a non-issue in technique.  Although it may occur, it occurs due to other circumstances, not due to personal control.  There was a lively discussion of this over in Student's Corner or thereabouts, where someone confused by this damaging idea of "fingers coming down in different speeds" reasonably concluded that if you play a chord of several notes with one note in prominence, that finger must be playing faster than other fingers.  This is truly madness, and then what if you have a chord in one hand where two notes have to be brought in relief but in proportion to the other, well you have to come up with three different "speeds.."

Basically we have different touches, which probably affect the speed at which the keys go down.  You can play the piano with different parts of your finger, and with different strokes.  This to me is the art inherent in piano playing, since the aspect of touch is unique to keyboards.  Even well-made mechanical action organs respond to touch, and the clavichord intensifies the problem to a huge degree.  It is in my opinion madness to try and control the speed at which the finger is playing keys, and much better to try and control the tempo of the piece.

Walter Ramsey

[bflatminor24]

what?!

I mean a duel, MONO A MONO, me vs. you a BATTLE TO THE DEATH, let us both join swords in the 10/2, learn it and record it, and so shall I.

Where the flying dismemberedcorpse do you come up with the idea that 'In this etude, evenness and control of dynamics are more important than speed'?
It's also more than a BIT obvious that evennes and dynamic control in this piece are dependent upon digital dexterity and - you guessed it - SPEED.

I WILL NOT AGREE THAT THEY SOUND BETTER, I WILL NOT AGREE TO HAVING PENILE REDUCTION SURGERY!

I have never been wrong in my life, I wouldn't have a clue what it feels like, I believe you find it cool, but as has been proven thus far this evening - our tastes differ immensely.
I shall say nothing of our respective intellects...just that you are a lesser mortal than I.

LOL. You can't be serious bro. Join swords? Penile reduction surgery? Never been wrong in your life? Lesser mortal than you?

Have you actually listened to the kind of bile you vomit on this forum? How can you expect anyone to take you seriously. You sound and write like a 10 year old.

Now you want me to learn a piece you probably spent most of your time learning...Get a grip buddy.  Even if I wanted to learn the piece, I have no way of recording it other than my concert performances, which I perform in four times per year. And sadly for you, my repertoire is already chosen, you can find it on a previous thread under performance called "What say YOU?" and I believe it is a step above your repertoire but if you insist on a duel, then why don't you learn one of the ten pieces I have to perfect by that time. I'll even let you choose.

~Max~

[bflatminor24]

Oh and I forgot to mention. You may also choose any Rachmaninoff prelude or sonata, Chopin prelude, sonata, or Liszt etude but I seriously doubt you have those technical abilities.

[jakev2.0]

How about we just hold the first annual Big F*cking Pianoforum Pissing Contest?

[opus10no2]

Oh and I forgot to mention. You may also choose any Rachmaninoff prelude or sonata, Chopin prelude, sonata, or Liszt etude but I seriously doubt you have those technical abilities.

While I sit on your lap, I will practice these pieces, to provide word to your anachronistic perveliatoristics.

Get real, Harry.

[ramseytheii]

While I sit on your lap, I will practice these pieces

This contest is getting fun!

Walter Ramsey

[bflatminor24]

While I sit on your lap, I will practice these pieces, to provide word to your anachronistic perveliatoristics.

Get real, Harry.

What are you talking about broskies.

[jakev2.0]

This contest is getting fun!

Walter Ramsey

Ehh...Only if one of them happened to be Jessica Alba.

[opus10no2]

What are you talking about broskies.

Put a comma in there, before I put you in a coma.

[bflatminor24]

Ok broskies put me into a coma you twelve year old kid.