Help with Beethoven's Sonata Op.90 in E Minor please!

[after8ight]

I'm currently preparing Beethoven's Sonata Op.90 in E Minor (First Movmt) for both my ABRSM Grade 8 and for my college audition next year. Theres a passage in this piece where I require serious advice:

Bars 55 through 65 (and also 198 to 208) on the LH is a big 10th jump. Does anyone have suggestions on fingerings that may be easier? and also techniques to cut the jump?

currently im trying 5-1-3-1   5-1-4-1   5-1-5-1 etc... but it really is abit too much of change.. and im also trying to play as high up as possible on keys of B, C# and D so the stretch will be more lateral than angled.

please, any suggestions will definitely be of help!

thanks!

[Motrax]

The my left had is just big enough to reach a tenth, but not comfortably, to give an idea of the size of my hand. I used 5-1-2-1   5-1-3-1   5-1-3-1. The second 5-1-3-1 might seem like a really large stretch, but it leaves your hand in a very good position to accurately hit the base afterward. However, this really depends on how your hand is built. Don't do it if it feels too uncomfortable - otherwise, you may hurt yourself.

Good luck!

[after8ight]

thanks so much for the kind advice.

hmm... you know. i always have this feeling that this sonata is not that popular. you ever wondered?

[steve jones]

Just wanted to bump this thread up, as I have been having the exact sample problem. This passage is so difficult, even with an adequate reach.

Id love to hear what Bernhard or some of our other authorities think about this one. I cant for the life of me find a comfortable way of playing this bit (and I dont play it unless I can become comfortable, dont want to get injuries!).

Thanks again guys!

[cadenz]

*bump* same here.
i've been using fingering: 5131 5131 5141.
i find it helpful when playing the second instance where its in E minor for the 4 finger to reach over the Bb key and press the B key pretty high up, rather than constantly moving my hand back and forth as to avoid black notes (if that makes sense) as i realized i was moving my hand back and forth too much and it was somewhat inefficient. that helped speed the E minor one up a bit.
With the B minor one which occurs first i've had trouble hitting the highest F# with my thumb, my hand might have a lot of lateral momentum from moving my hand to the position so i end up hitting it badly so i have to be careful and try to combine wrist motion with motion from the fingers themselves.
i can sort of push it up to tempo, but its sloppy and inconsistent. generally i try practicing the parts i have trouble in in small groups. oh. and also the left hand figuration repeats four times, on the second two times i use my right hand to help play the highest F#'s and B's in the B minor and E minor ones respectively it gives my LH a bit of a rest :p
i'm also still interested as to what others might have to say though.

[steve jones]

I guess the way to learn this passage is to break it up into the individual sets of notes. The first and second notes of each set are where the big intervals lie, so if you could practice these before linking the sets, it might help.

Im determined to master this passage, as I do love the movement. However, its a little advanced for me at the moment, so I may leave it a while.

[teresa_b]

Hi all,

Isn't it a pain the way Beethoven takes a grade 8 piece and throws in a grade 39 passage? 

With my relatively small hands, I had the same trouble with this passage.  What you might try is, to think about the bass notes on the beat being the ones that carry you along, and play them by themselves with the 5th finger.  Then put the other notes in at a slow tempo, concentrating on getting from the 4th sixteenth note back down to the next bass note.   That F# in the first passage is the worst because of the awkwardness of getting the thumb up to it.  The wrist just does not pivot that way!  I don't know of any great way to ease it, just steady slow practice, and maybe try it with dotted rhythms, etc.

Good luck!  It's a lovely piece.
Teresa

[steve jones]

Hi all,

Isn't it a pain the way Beethoven takes a grade 8 piece and throws in a grade 39 passage? 

Teresa,

I think you've just articulated my sentiments exactly! This piece is all managable for me, except for this passage which I find impossible at the moment.

But thanks for tips, I shall give that a try. I think this may take a while!

[whynot]

I loved the "grade 39" comment.

I've played this, and I have extremely small hands, so I definitely struggled with this section.  I usually pivot a fair amount in playing big shapes, but I didn't do that here.  I considered the top three notes my default position, and kept my outer hand/pinky gently open, although not exactly stretched out, and I would jump down to the low notes, then spring back up.  Maybe this is what theresa_b was saying?  I also tended to lean my hand just a little inward, I mean rolled very slightly to the right--I don't remember why I did this!  I haven't played it in so long.  But I remember feeling pretty relaxed in that position and how I kept coming back to it for that reason.       Good luck, everyone.

[pita bread]

I have relatively small hands for a guy (9ths) but I use 5-1-4-1 for all the alberti bass figures requiring the 10ths, and 5-1-2-1 for the smaller ones. Practice it placing emphasis on the eight-note beats (1 & 2 & 3 &). Make sure you fully depress all the bass notes at slow and fast tempi.

[whynot]

I don't know how I got the frowning face in my post.  Guess I don't know what I'm doing.  Sorry!