I think Hanon is a great way to improve technique. However, you should practise it one finger at a time, slowly. This, imo, is the best way to gain finger independence.
The time will come when you will regret this one.The anti - hanonists will be upon you.Thal
I keep hearing things about practicing scales and arps and Chopin etudes, but in truth, how do the hands develop speed and agility necessary to play technically difficult things, like fast octaves, crazy runz, etc. In all honesty, I don't really play any faster or with better technique than I did a year ago. I just have more musicality and interpretation. My technique is still subpar. Amassing a gigantic repertoire does help either.I'm asking this because I'm learning Chopin's Second Scherzo, and the runs in that piece are ridiculous. I would need a drug to bring that up to speed.
what it means to use the mind.
About the Chopin Scherzo, Cortot published a "working edition" of the score that has a lot of practice tips, I haven't looked at it in great detail, but it probably has tips for the runs you are talking about.The hands can develop agility not through endless repetition of monophonic, monotonous Hanon exercises, but through the careful study of polyphony (bach), the artistic gradation of the notes within beautiful melodies (chopin), the study of touch in its infinite varieties (Liszt), etc. Polyphony is the true way to develop piano technique, and in the end you will have a better technique than others (Cherkassky played both the Prokofiev 2nd and Rachmaninoff 3rd in one concert when he was 80, and he spent his lifetime studying polyphony), and you will have a complete control over all of the corners of the piano repertoire. C.P.E. Bach complained that Italians of his time merely "strummed" their instruments, and indeed many people today do the same thing, even in music which is written quite differently.Cortot's editions are particularly valuable, because he was the master at developing exercises from the material. Everybody should do that, and to find out how it can be done, all of his editions should be studied, especially Chopin Etudes. In the repertoire sectino of this forum you can also find a list of all the Liszt editions which he made.His comments are all in French, but of course the practice suggestions are musical examples (also, if you can skim the French, remember that "travail" means practice, and any sentence with that word you should try and translate).Walter Ramsey
I would really like to get my hands on Cortot's for this piece. I'm fluid in French anyway. Does anyone have it on their computer, and can upload?
speed does work, BUT you must give yourself alot of time. There is no "speed wall" as people have stated, since there must be a speed that one can do perfect repeats over and over without error, for days and days, and then obviously one could then increase the metronome by ONE number. Absurd to think one could not. Problem with people not suceeding in this is they didn't stay on the perfect repeat speed long enough, used faulty fingering, or produced the sound incorrectly which caused strain and/or lack of clarity. You must figure out how to produce the tone where the hand and all muscles are most relaxed. For me it is striking the key with raised finger and only enough pressure to key the key down once the key is struck. So when you state it will take forever to reach a certain speed, just get "time" out of the question and get to work, one speed at a time.
I forgot to add...what you just stated can be explained by this. your why is like a horse ramping up a walk. that will not work because you will build up stress which can lead to injury. what you accomplish is that you lie on the small probability to acidentally stumble to on the right motion. like a horse you may/or not stumble on to a troat. why not start a gallop or infinitely speed(chord) and the slow down. Then there will be no speed walls.
I have not noticed my gradually increasing speed leads to "stress" or injury. There must be some stress to cause an adaptive change, ie increased speed. The gradual increase makes sure the key strokes are very clear with only a slight bit of stress, with the most independence of finger movement. I tried many times the other way, lightening speed in small sections, and I did not like the sound of each note. It was as though fingers were not striking the keys, only running over them, not as clear as the section length increased. I'm not really sure why it didn't work, only can speculate. I do know the gradual method is working great, as the piece I'm working on now is already at performance speed, crystal clear, and now I am going beyond so at performance time slowing down to performance speed will make it feel very easy. It may be a matter of what sound appeals to you.
Technique is in 2 things finding the motions and condition your brain. what you do is not effective. You think that your hand transforms so that you can play, it does not you just accidentally stumbles into the the right motions which will get harder and more time consuming the more advance you become. what you do is just a long round about of playing the piano.
I KNOW my hand transfoms so that I can play as I hear and see it, with metronome taking any quess work out of speed perception. And then the idea I accidentally stumbled into right motions that get harder.... Man, you know alot about me. Nonsense.Nick
the funny thing is that many believes this like you do. What you should do is to play first fast for exploring hand motions. Then add these motions to slowplay because accuracy improves better on slow speed. The slow play is for conditioning your brain and fast play for exploring hand motions. The thing you do is to practice slowmotions which will not be recquired for fast speeds. Then you practice and practice(sure you get there after long time--but it's ineffective) and suddenly you stumble into a new motion which let you playing at higher speeds. Then you practice that motions for a while until you then suddenly stumbles into another motions....etc...until you come up above final speed. Why practice all these slowmotions than you constantly search for the right motions...dont' bother if the playing becomes a bit uneven that something you are going to work on when you add these motions into the slow play.
but I see a lot of people here asking about fast octaves, or fast scales, or fast repeated notes - I think the entire question of "how can I play faster" is indeed the reason why people aren't able to play faster.To play something hard, it can't be hard to you; to play something fast, it can't be fast to you.
Work. We can talk about it all we want to, but in the end what it boils down to is a lot of work. There are no shortcuts.
"Furious activity is no substitute for understanding" (H. H. Williams)
When my hands won’t cooperate how can I make music?
When I lack the strength, dexterity and independence of the fingers to do the things required in the music it makes no sence to intellectualise my problem. I want to know how to develop each one of my fingers into an independent little drumstick! Because those are the tools that I need to make music. When the mechanics (as someone put it ) is in place, then and only then has come the time for analyzing movement and doing brainwork. Perhaps mechanics is even trivial once achieved. But for those of us who struggle lack of mechanics is a road block, no less. How to achieve those mechanics, that’s the question for most of us. So please, have another go, those of you who know.
When the mechanics (as someone put it ) is in place, then and only then has come the time for analyzing movement and doing brainwork.
I have read through this string with great interest. Hoping to learn the secret. Alas, disappoinment! I have learnt that it is all about movement, and that it all starts in the brain! Well, who could have guessed. All my life I have hoped one day to be able to play things like the barcarolle, the 4th. ballad, the polonaise fantasy, the scerzos, even the etudes. I can do some of them slowly, oh yes! But what good is that. What good is there in beeing able even to play up to speed the easy stuff, just to be stopped by the first trill. Who has heard of a beautiful, slow trill, or even a beautifull slow double trill. When my hands won’t cooperate how can I make music? When I lack the strength, dexterity and independence of the fingers to do the things required in the music it makes no sence to intellectualise my problem. I want to know how to develop each one of my fingers into an independent little drumstick! Because those are the tools that I need to make music. When the mechanics (as someone put it ) is in place, then and only then has come the time for analyzing movement and doing brainwork. Perhaps mechanics is even trivial once achieved. But for those of us who struggle lack of mechanics is a road block, no less. How to achieve those mechanics, that’s the question for most of us. So please, have another go, those of you who know.
Are you seriously telling me that I can do anything I want on the piano just by careful coordination of my movements, no matter what tools I got for hands? Or are you telling me that my hands will somehow miracolously develop into good tools just by coordinating my movements? A fascinating thought I must admit. Perhaps we are adressing the problem at different levels. Building tecnique is a complex matter. When I am looking for ways og making my hands better tools you are talking about how to apply those tools intelligently? There’s a difference.
Topic: How do you REALLY build technique? 