The Taubman Institute Videos

[drooxy]

Hi !

Does someone know the "Taubman Technique Videos - Volumes 1 to 10" issued by the Taubman Institute ?

https://www.taubman-institute.com/html/videos.html ?

If yes, is it worth it ?

Thanks !
Drooxy

[xvimbi]

Hi !

Does someone know the "Taubman Technique Videos - Volumes 1 to 10" issued by the Taubman Institute ?

https://www.taubman-institute.com/html/videos.html ?

If yes, is it worth it ?

Thanks !
Drooxy

Somebody posted a while ago that they were worth it (I couldn't find that thread). I haven't brought myself to fork over $810 for them, yet.

[drooxy]

Yes... this is kind of expensive... and because it is VHS PAL (not our video standard here in France) I have to add 450 euros to have them converted to DVD format... 

It has to be worth it !!!! 

Cheers.
Drooxy

[xvimbi]

Yes... this is kind of expensive... and because it is VHS PAL (not our video standard here in France) I have to add 450 euros to have them converted to DVD format... 

It has to be worth it !!!! 

Cheers.
Drooxy

You can convert this easily yourself. Find someone who has a video recorder that can read both NTSC and PAL, connect it to a computer and record the video into a movie-making software. Then burn on DVD. Macintosh computers come with all the software necessary to do that. Surely, somebody around you will have one.

(I didn't know you were from France. I would have posted the links to the European places that sell the Fink video...)

[drooxy]

Thanks Xvimbi !

I have found a tape reader that read PAL/SECAM/NTSC standards for less than 80 euros (first, I thought I would not find a device able to read PAL here in France and second I thought I would have to pay much more... prices really went down !!!).

There is a big probability that I will go for Fink video and for the Taubman Technique Videos... The table of content (and the excerts posted on their site) look very exciting !

What do you think ?

Cheers,
Drooxy

[xvimbi]

Thanks Xvimbi !

I have found a tape reader that read PAL/SECAM/NTSC standards for less than 80 euros (first, I thought I would not find a device able to read PAL here in France and second I thought I would have to pay much more... prices really went down !!!).

There is a big probability that I will go for Fink video and for the Taubman Technique Videos... The table of content (and the excerts posted on their site) look very exciting !

What do you think ?

Cheers,
Drooxy

If you've got the money, by all means, go for it. It's probably a good investment for teachers, professional pianists and dedicated hobby-pianists.

[drooxy]

Thanks for the advice...

Now I have also found a device that combine multi-standard tape reader and DVD converter for 150€... I believe this is exactly what I need ! 

I would classify myself under what you call "dedicated hobby-pianist"... I do not take lessons with a teacher anymore because - due to my job that makes me travel from time to time - I cannot guarantee a regular weekly dedication...

So I think the money I save here can go to the Taubman videos !

Are you a professional pianist ?

Cheers,
Drooxy

[bernhard]

If you get the videos, I would definitely be interested in hearing a review of them.

I have watched the clips they have in their website, and they were all very good.

Keep us posted!

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[drooxy]

Bernhard,

I was wondering if I could dare to ask you directly if you knew them...

I have also been very interested in the few excerpts that are on their web site.

If I get the tapes - the price is high so I am still hesitating... but I am also very excited ! - be sure that I will let you know !

Cheers,
Drooxy

PS: I wonder if it is still necessary to order the Fink video...

[nick]

I have been curious about the videos as well, and would be interested in any info on them.

Nick

[torchygirl]

I just checked into this a bit - some universities have them in their library.   You can often find out on-line. Google search "taubman piano videos site:<your local university here>.edu."

Karen

[drooxy]

Hi all,

I have ordered the videos and should receive them next week...

I will keep you posted.

Cheers,
Drooxy

PS: I received the video from S. Fink... I just watched it quickly once and it sounds very interesting ! It goes from basic information to more advanced stuff... A lot to learn from that video, at least for me ! 

[rosana]

WHere can I get Seymor Fink's  video  in the US?  Amazon does not seem to have it.
Thanks

[xvimbi]

WHere can I get Seymor Fink's  video  in the US?  Amazon does not seem to have it.
Thanks

Ah, the marvels of search engines Look at this one:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5595.0.html

or go directly to

https://www.amadeuspress.com/books/index.cfm?do=details&ID=713

[rosana]

Ah, the marvels of search engines

And I pride myself on using search engines all the time.

Thanks so much, xvimbi  , you are always so helpful (and patient).

[nick]

WHere can I get Seymor Fink's  video  in the US?  Amazon does not seem to have it.
Thanks

Is the Seymour Fink video one and the same with the Taubman videos?

Nick

[bernhard]

Is the Seymour Fink video one and the same with the Taubman videos?

Nick

No, they are completely different (well, almost).

[xvimbi]

Is the Seymour Fink video one and the same with the Taubman videos?

Nick

The Fink video is one cassette that costs $25.
The Taubman videos is 12 hours on 10 cassettes and costs $800.

[nick]

The Fink video is one cassette that costs $25.
The Taubman videos is 12 hours on 10 cassettes and costs $800.

It was the content, not the price I was interested in. I saw on this thread mention of the Fink tapes under Taubman videos and wondered what it was about.

Nick

[bernhard]

It was the content, not the price I was interested in. I saw on this thread mention of the Fink tapes under Taubman videos and wondered what it was about.

Nick

If you go to the Taubman website (it is somewhere in the forum - or just google it) they have clips of the video so you can get a general idea.

Fink's video is basically an illustration of his book. So if you can get his book (in a library), you willl have a very good idea of what is in it.

Fink's video is much more compact and more "professionaly" made. Clearly there was some thought (and possible a director) behind it.

Taubman is much more all over the place, partly because it was the filming of a seminar proceedings.

Both are very useful, both talk about similar things.

However they use different terminologies for the same movements, and they organise logically the subjec in very different ways.

From a pragmatical point of view they are both excellent and they complement each other very nicely. It is like having a complex subject explained in two very differnet ways, both explanations being equally valid and equally good.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[nick]

Ok thanks Bernhard. Since you have seen them, tell me something about the Taubman tapes. I've heard so much about them without much description. Anything you know would be appreciated, ie weight for producing sound. practice speed etc.

Nick

[bernhard]

Ok thanks Bernhard. Since you have seen them, tell me something about the Taubman tapes. I've heard so much about them without much description. Anything you know would be appreciated, ie weight for producing sound. practice speed etc.

Nick

There are ten videos in all:

No. 1 – “Choreography of the hands” – This is not very interesting. It is more like a long advert for the Taubman institute with interviews with people who have done the training, and lips of Dorothy teaching and making general comments about her philosophy. It reminds one of these TV sales programs. It does not give away much, but makes you wish to buy the rest of the videos.

No. 2 – “Introductory principles and concepts” – Here we begin in earnest. Edna Golansky (who was Taubman assistant teacher, and who took over the lessons once Dorothy felt she didn’t have the time anymore), gives an overview of the “system” so to speak. Again, you get a general idea, but you are left wanting for more.

No. 3 – “Forearm rotation” – This is an excellent video. Forearm rotation is the basis on which Taubman builds everything else. The format that is displayed here will be more or less follows in all the subsequent videos. We are in a big auditorium where the annual Taubman seminar is taking place. There is an audience of piano teachers and the tape is basically the movie of the seminar. Edna Golansky reads from a book that Taubman wrote (or has been writing). As far as I know this book has never been published, and she is reading from a manuscript. I believe that you get a copy of the book if you enrol in the seminar. The book consists of espalnations and comments by Taubman on several schools of technique/pedagogy and several excerpts of (advanced) repertory where she demonstrates her way. After reading form the book, Edna goes to the piano and demonstrates. There are several cameras, so you can see the movements from different angles. She also answers questions from the audience and if they request her to do such and such movement she does and comments on its appropriateness or not. Every now and then, the seminar is interrupted by a clip of Dorothy Taubman (not at the seminar) giving further pointers on what we have just seen. Lots of musical excerpts of the standard advanced repertory are covered. And the explanations and demonstrations are usually thorough and clear. Sometimes you cannot quite see what is going on, and the overall quality of the tapes is not very good (I believe these were filmed many years ago). In spite of that, these are excellent resources for any pianist. At the end of the video (the last 15 – 20 minutes or so) they inserted clips of master-classes from Dorothy Taubmann, which are very interesting, as they show her teaching in action.

No. 4 – “In and out movements” – Having dealt with foream rotation, in the second video Edna explains the second basic movement, and when it is appropriate to employ it. The format is very similar to the previous video.

No. 5 – “Walking arm and hand movements”. This video is about using the arm to move the hand and fingers in place and not the other way round.

No. 6 – “Shaping octaves” – Taubman has her own terminology. “shaping” is a good case in point. I will not explain it (will take too long). But the moment you see the vide you will know what she means. The concept/movement is well known for most pianists, but she gives it a name, and puts it in perspective. Edna now starts to emphasise the point that although the movements are presented in isolation, in proper playing they must all be combined and co-ordinated.

No. 7 – “Grouping”. I truly hate seeing concepts I thought I had invented being demonstrated by someone else in a better way. Well, I always called it clustering, but clearly someone thought of it before me (the story of my life). In this video, one starts to move more into the mental side of playing.

No. 8 – “Leaps” – Yes, this is about jumping accurately around the piano.

No. 9 – “Interdependence & memorisation”. Taubman has quite a lot of things to say about “independence” be it of hands or fingers, and all of them are not nice. (Those of you who enjoy Pischna and Dohnanyi are in for a good bash!). During the first ten minutes of this tape I thought I truly disagreed with many of the things she was saying, but it turned out that it was more the way she talked about it, then what she actually did. Upt to his point I truly enjoyed the videos, but this one left me with a vague feeling of uneasiness, in regards to her choice of words and explanations.

No. 10 – “Fingering” – Basically principles of fingering.

All in all these are superb videos and I definitely recommend them. Not only they give a detailed view of Taubman’s ideas and way of working, as they give – as close – to possible – the experience of attending her seminars. Will the video replace the seminar? I don’t think so, because if you go to the seminar, in addition to all that the video offers, you get to work with a Taubman teacher on your repertory applying under guidance what you have learned during the talks.

Finally, although I would be very interested in getting the book, my feeling is that without the video the book will be near to useless. (Maybe they also thought so and decided not to publish it).

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[nick]

Thanks Bernhard for taking the time to write that. I guess I might try at the University to get a hold of the videos to find out more about them.

Nick

[bernhard]

Thanks Bernhard for taking the time to write that. I guess I might try at the University to get a hold of the videos to find out more about them.

Nick

You are welcome.

If you do get hold of the videos, come back and tell us what you thought.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[shoshin]

That was an excellent review Bernhard.

[ranakor]

"It is like having a complex subject explained in two very differnet ways, both explanations being equally valid and equally good."

but not equally expensive=( i could afford the fink but definately not the taubman i was wondering how much knownledge i'd be missing by having only the former (ie how much of the knownledge inside the tape is , beside the way it is explained, actually diferent?). is it really worth saving up to buy the taubman on top of the fink?

[xvimbi]

"It is like having a complex subject explained in two very differnet ways, both explanations being equally valid and equally good."

but not equally expensive=( i could afford the fink but definately not the taubman i was wondering how much knownledge i'd be missing by having only the former (ie how much of the knownledge inside the tape is , beside the way it is explained, actually diferent?). is it really worth saving up to buy the taubman on top of the fink?

To be very honest, I found the Taubman videos quite boring This is because of the setting. There are many pauses and gaps and situations where essentially nothing happens. Professionally presented, with diagrams, animations, and concise examples, the whole series could be compressed tremendously. Don't get me wrong, the lectures are incredibly useful, but the amount of information per unit of time could definitely be higher I recommend getting them from a library and to buy the tapes only if you are a professional or if you have plenty of money, in which case you should take the course in person.

Fink is much more concise, but it is occasionally too concise for my taste. For example, Fink's introductory "exercise" (Primary Movement No. 1) from his book is almost equivelent to Thomas Mark's entire book "What every pianists needs to know about the body" and will easily take 6 months to master without having pressed any key on the piano.

Personally, I would recommend watching both the Taubman and the Fink, and in fact everything else that is out there (Sandor, Bernstein, Mark, etc.). It is very helpful to see things explained in different words and presented from different angles. If you want to get some videos, get Mark and Fink and borrow the Taubman

[bernhard]

"It is like having a complex subject explained in two very differnet ways, both explanations being equally valid and equally good."

but not equally expensive=( i could afford the fink but definately not the taubman i was wondering how much knownledge i'd be missing by having only the former (ie how much of the knownledge inside the tape is , beside the way it is explained, actually diferent?). is it really worth saving up to buy the taubman on top of the fink?

That is a tough question.

One main advantage of the Taubman videos is that and go over the material in much greater detail. Another advantage is that you have people asking questions, and therefore, many of the questions you yourself may have get answered. On the Fink video, it is just him talking and playing. Because on the Taubman videos you get to see students being corrected, you are given not only the correct way to do it, as the incorrect way and how to put it right. In this sense they are far more interactive.

It is a very common situation that you may see something demonstrated in a video to perfection, then you go to the piano, and you may think that you are doing the same thing but you are not. This is one of the main arguments to have a live teacher to correct you. In this respect, Taubman is better because when you see not only the correct thing, but people doing the wrong thing (even after being shown how to do it right) you may be more aware of it in yourself. Or maybe not – which is one of the reasons I believe that going to their live seminars maybe quite an experience – an experience a video cannot supply.

But other than that, I do agree that the price difference is staggering.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

PS – I’ve just seen xvimbi’s post above with which I agree wholeheartedly: Fink – too concise; Taubman – too prolix.

[ranakor]

thanks a lot xvimbi & berhnard

i'd like to extend my question to freeing the caged bird i assume it is more alike fink's video but is it very similar or do you also feel there would be a benefit in having it?

[bernhard]

thanks a lot xvimbi & berhnard

i'd like to extend my question to freeing the caged bird i assume it is more alike fink's video but is it very similar or do you also feel there would be a benefit in having it?

No, that is again a completely different video talking more or less about the same thing.

In Freeing the Caged Bird, the emphasis is on the Alexander technique  - in fact a large portion of the video is dedicated to it, so if you are familiar with it, you will want to fastforward.

Also, while Fink goes in great detail on a myriad of movements, as does Taubman, Lister-Sinlk goes in depth on one single movement (which she calls the Basic stroke). From there – she says – everything else should follow naturally. Which is true to a certain extent. There are a number of scenes of her (very good) playing a variety of advanced repertory where she demonstrated how she used to play (which led to multiple injuries) and how she plays now (she also describes the process by which she arrived at her present ideas – which is very interesting). There are also clips of several of her students at different levels and different ages, from elementary to advanced, as well as students who came to her for help and how she modified the way they played. This video has far more “philosophy” than the other two, and far less “techniques”. Again, she is talking pretty much about the same things (there is no real disagreement between these teachers), but she puts her point across again, in a different way. I just wished she did not spend so much time of the video on the Alexander technique (but them I am very familiar with it).

I have also met her in person (I attended one of her seminars), and as it is always the case, there is huge difference (for the better) between what you get from a video and form a hands-on-approach. If you can get to one of her seminars, I strongly recommend it.

(The video is also recommended)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ranakor]

thanks again for the reviews>< was my birthday today so i think i'll spend some of that cash i got toward fink & Lister-Sinlk's video (& uhm i'll wait till i'm rich to afford taubman=)

[bernhard]

You are welcome.

(I mispelled Barbara Lister-Sink name )

Tell us what you thought of them.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[moose_opus_28]

I haven't seen the videos, but my teacher learned the technique from another teacher, and we both switched techniques about 2 years ago.  If anyone is wondering if learning the technique is worth it, my opinion is a definite yes.  The control level is great, and it works wonders with small handed people like my younger brother.  Personally, I've been plauged with injuries since age 12, but after I learned the Taubman technique my problems literally vanished.  No tendonitis, no cyst on my wrist, no wrist pain....it's been wonderful.

[ranakor]

sorry to bumb this old thread but would anyone know where one can buy fink & freeing the caged bird videos in europe (or from someone who ships to europe) in pal/secam format? the freeing the caged bird website doesn't have secure credit card payment & while i can find fink's book on amazon.com (ships internationally) i couldn't find the video in pal format (& even amadeus press doesn't ship it to europe even tho it ships the book there & ships to "elsewhere")

& if the answer is no... anyone know how to convert ntsc to pal if it's even possible?

[vakulchai]

I have Fink's Video and  some Taubman's Videos ready to burn into DVDs (both PAL and NTSC). Email me if you are interested.

[ashujaku]

sorry to bumb this old thread but would anyone know where one can buy fink & freeing the caged bird videos in europe (or from someone who ships to europe) in pal/secam format? the freeing the caged bird website doesn't have secure credit card payment & while i can find fink's book on amazon.com (ships internationally) i couldn't find the video in pal format (& even amadeus press doesn't ship it to europe even tho it ships the book there & ships to "elsewhere")

& if the answer is no... anyone know how to convert ntsc to pal if it's even possible?

I know how to convert ntsc to pal and vice versa...you will loose something on quality but it can be done. I wouldnt speak now about it because is much too complicated process, but I could help you do it. Or if you send me a tape I can do it for you.

[keyofc]

Bernhard,
Do you know if you can buy one Taubman tape or do they sell them only as a package?