...yet ANOTHER audition that needs help

[phil13]

Hey everybody,

I'm auditioning for college and I need your feedback. The auditions are in six months. I'm not auditioning at Julliard, because I know I can't compete with people who have played all their life (I've only played for 4 years), but I will audition at Oberlin, Rice and a few others. Let me know what you think of this:

Bach- "Sleepers, Wake" Chorale Prelude No.2
Beethoven- Sonata No.8 "Pathetique"
Scriabin- Etude Op.2 No.1
Chopin- Nocturne in E minor Op.72 No.1
Debussy Prelude No.10 "The Sunken Cathedral"

I can post the rest of my repertoire if I need to. (And yes, I know that some of these are overplayed, but it's the best I could come up with)
Any comments or suggestions wold be helpful. Thanks.

Phil

[Kassaa]

Don't do pathetique.

Maybe Pastorale or something.

[Skeptopotamus]

it's always helpful to see the complete rep ^^  I love it when people offer.

[AvoidedCadence]

I think you have chosen a program that, properly played, could get you into nearly any music school in the world.  The only "problem" is that there isn't really any overt virtuosity.  You've chosen "sound" pieces, not etudes.  Therefore, you must study them carefully, to impart proper character and tone to all the pieces - the sorrowful Russian atmosphere of the Scriabin, the "profound calm" (without excessive slowness) of the Debussy.  Listen to as many recordings as you can.  Listen to yourself on recordings, to see if you are creating any musical effects which may seem acceptable to you as you play them, but seem unnatural or disturbing to an observer.  Are some notes sticking out that shouldn't?  Does the rubato sound contrived?

I know this is a repertoire post but I think the repertoire you choose for an audition is not that important, for college entrance.  Most schools want to see that you are someone with potential, not necessarily a finished virtuoso (I take it you are not applying to the Moscow Conservatory  )

Good luck!

[phil13]

I posted this on your recent thread, Skeptopotamus, but I'll post it here too so you can give me feedback.

Bach

Transcription of 'Sleepers, Wake' Chorale Prelude in E-flat
Italian Concerto Mvt.1
Transcription of "Arioso" in A-flat

Beethoven

Sonata No.8 'Pathetique' (not quite completed yet, but in good progress, 2 movements down)
Sonata No.14 'Moonlight'

Chopin

Nocturne in G minor Op.37 No.1
Nocturne in E minor Op. 72 No.1
Nocturne in C# minor Op. posth.
Waltz in A minor Op.34 No.2
Preludes in E min., B min., A maj., E maj., D-flat maj., G min.
Polonaise in A major 'Military' Op. 40 No.1
Polonaise in C minor Op. 40 No.2 (not finished)
Fantasie-Impromptu Op.66 (not finished)
Mazurka in A minor Op.17 No.4
Mazurka in C#-minor Op.6 No.2

Debussy

Clair de Lune
Prelude No.8, Book I 'The girl with the Flaxen Hair'
Prelude No.10, Book I 'The Sunken Cathedral'

Grieg

Nocturne Op.54 No.4

Scriabin

Etude Op.2 No.1
Etude Op.8 No.11 (barely started)

Mendelssohn

Venetian Boat Song Op. 30 No.6

Mozart

Fantasia in D minor K.397
Sonata K.545 'Facile' 1st mvt.

I think you have chosen a program that, properly played, could get you into nearly any music school in the world.  The only "problem" is that there isn't really any overt virtuosity.  You've chosen "sound" pieces, not etudes.  Therefore, you must study them carefully, to impart proper character and tone to all the pieces - the sorrowful Russian atmosphere of the Scriabin, the "profound calm" (without excessive slowness) of the Debussy.  Listen to as many recordings as you can.  Listen to yourself on recordings, to see if you are creating any musical effects which may seem acceptable to you as you play them, but seem unnatural or disturbing to an observer.  Are some notes sticking out that shouldn't?  Does the rubato sound contrived?

I know this is a repertoire post but I think the repertoire you choose for an audition is not that important, for college entrance.  Most schools want to see that you are someone with potential, not necessarily a finished virtuoso (I take it you are not applying to the Moscow Conservatory  )

Good luck!

Thank you. I'll be polishing these to the best of my ability over the next 6 months.

Phil

[phil13]

Don't do pathetique.

Maybe Pastorale or something.

'Pastorale' was the other sonata I was looking at. It's more difficult, and learning all four movements in six months would be impossible for me. I already have mastered the second mvt. of 'Pathetique', I have the third mvt. memorized and almost completely up to speed. The rest of my time will be spent primarily on the first movement, which is fine for now but still needs some more work. And I can't do 'Moonlight' because, according to most of these members, I'd get laughed off the stage.

Phil

[pita bread]

If you're going to do a slow Scriabin etude, finish up your Op. 8 #11, it's more difficult, but a better piece in general.

However, everything you're playing is pretty slow and brooding, with the exception of the Pathetique, and I think you need more contrast- maybe one of the lighter Debussy preludes (Fireworks) or one of the Estampes (Gardens in the Rain)?

[phil13]

I haven't got time to work with a new Debussy prelude. The Sunken Cathedral is one of the best pieces in my repertoire musically. I suppose I could change the Chopin, but I'm unsure.

[pooguy77]

Ok, Bach first. Make sure you check in detail of all your college choices and their repertoire requirements because some places may only want to hear a prelude and fugue.

As for your romantic, I love that nocturne. But, I think it will be more effective if you choose 3 or so marzuka's and present them as a set. You already have two, a more up-beat, techinical one would be a nice addition. Their not to long or difficult to learn and prepare, plus it give the judges some options to what they want to hear.

I too agree with doing Scriabin op. 8 no. 11 etude over the op. 2. More effective piece and shows you off more. If you do have time, try one of his more faster etudes.

If you wanna keep your Debussy, that's fine, especially if you feel that it shows you off and it could be a wise piece to start things off with.

As for your Sonata.......as much as I want you to change it, but if you don't have enough time. Again, check your college info, some places might ask for only one movement of a sonata, I doubt Oberlin does though. However, if most of the places that your auditioning at ask for one or even just 2 mvts., do try to change your sonata.

Here are some suggestions:

Haydn: Almost any would be great and not terribly hard to master. The b-minor is probably a good effective sonata and contrast with your other pieces well.
Mozart: Sonata in F Major K. 280
             Sonta in Bb Major K. 281
             Sonata in C Major, K. 309
Beethoven: If you have time to prepare only and really wanna stick with a Beethoven, then perhaps Op. 10 No. 1 (if you can get through the pathetique, then you should get through this though however the 3rd mvt. is an ass but very cool) or Op. 10 No. 2

Hope this helps.

[phil13]

Ok, Bach first. Make sure you check in detail of all your college choices and their repertoire requirements because some places may only want to hear a prelude and fugue.

As for your romantic, I love that nocturne. But, I think it will be more effective if you choose 3 or so marzuka's and present them as a set. You already have two, a more up-beat, techinical one would be a nice addition. Their not to long or difficult to learn and prepare, plus it give the judges some options to what they want to hear.

I too agree with doing Scriabin op. 8 no. 11 etude over the op. 2. More effective piece and shows you off more. If you do have time, try one of his more faster etudes.

If you wanna keep your Debussy, that's fine, especially if you feel that it shows you off and it could be a wise piece to start things off with.

As for your Sonata.......as much as I want you to change it, but if you don't have enough time. Again, check your college info, some places might ask for only one movement of a sonata, I doubt Oberlin does though. However, if most of the places that your auditioning at ask for one or even just 2 mvts., do try to change your sonata.

Here are some suggestions:

Haydn: Almost any would be great and not terribly hard to master. The b-minor is probably a good effective sonata and contrast with your other pieces well.
Mozart: Sonata in F Major K. 280
             Sonta in Bb Major K. 281
             Sonata in C Major, K. 309
Beethoven: If you have time to prepare only and really wanna stick with a Beethoven, then perhaps Op. 10 No. 1 (if you can get through the pathetique, then you should get through this though however the 3rd mvt. is an ass but very cool) or Op. 10 No. 2

Hope this helps.

OK. I've already checked out the colleges I'm applying for, and none of them are specific on a Bach P&F, though one does suggest it. Not sure if they allow transcriptions though...

Anyway, my list is based on the requirements at Oberlin, and they do require a complete classical sonata. As much as I've heard it's overplayed, I don't think I have enough time for a whole different sonata, Beethoven esp. Getting the first mvt. of 'Pathetique' will probably take me a few months, and then I need to spend the rest of the time devoted to interpretation, musicality, nit-picking, etc. At least the other 2 are no big deal.

I love the idea of doing the 3 mazurkas (esp. 17-4, my favorite), it's just that I don't know if the ones I have will have enough virtuosity. I'm already slicing corners off as it is...

[phil13]

I too agree with doing Scriabin op. 8 no. 11 etude over the op. 2. More effective piece and shows you off more. If you do have time, try one of his more faster etudes.

Could you suggest some of the etudes? I've only heard Op.2, No.1, Op.8 No.1, Op.8 No.9, Op.8 No.11, and Op.8 No.12.

[pooguy77]

Don't worry. Sure, they want to see a difficult program, but to many times, students tackle pieces that they shouldn't and there is nothing worse then hearing a masterpiece getting hacked into pieces. Quality is key, and that is what you should be aiming for. With that you'll be able to pass over students who are probably more techincally capable but just played to many "hard" pieces badly.

I'm not wild about the Bach transcription. A prelude and fugue would be a safe choice. A solid choice that shouldn't be impossible to learn is No. 5 in D Major, No. 6 in D Minor from WTC BK. I.

For the Scriabin etude, try looking at Op. 8 No. 2, No.3, No. 7. No. 10 is intresting and No. 12 is amazing but could be to hard.

I still think doing the 3 mazurka is a wise choice. You can keep the Op. 17 No. 4, but the other two should show you off techinically. Here are some suggestions:

Op. 33 No. 4 in B Minor
Op. 50 No. 3 in C# Minor
Op. 59 No. 3 in F# Minor
Op. 56 No. 2 in C Major

[phil13]

If I shouldn't tackle pieces that are too hard then Scriabin Op.8 No.12 is DEFINITELY out of the question. And the requirements are that I play one romantic piece, so the mazurkas can't be used. (Although, that was an EXCELLENT idea . Kudos to you, pooguy, for that.)

Do you think Op.2 No.1 would be okay if I pehaps played one of the other Chopin nocturnes? 72-1 is the one that reqires the most fingerwork in my opinion, but the one I play best and the most musically is the posthumous Nocturne in c#-minor. That's the one I was leaning toward the most but I decided against it because it's very simple .

Again, any suggestions from anybody would be fine. I need to figure this out for sure within the next 1-2 weeks so I can get movin'!

Thanks,

Phil

[moose_opus_28]

No. 12 isn't that hard.  I played it when I was 14 or so...but it's kinda famous.

[thierry13]

No. 12 isn't that hard.  I played it when I was 14 or so...but it's kinda famous.

It isn't hard, but requires an 11th hand span...  Else of than I really fail to see what is that hard. The octave jumps could be pissing for some people, but nothing unmanageable.

[moose_opus_28]

Well, I could play an 11th then, but I still broke them sometimes.  It's kinda tiring anyway.  Many people play it with all rolled 10ths and 11ths.

[phil13]

No.12 is indeed an amazing piece, but I really don't feel comfortable with all those notes in the left hand. Remember, since I have a few overplayed pieces, I want to make these works sing... in other words, they have to be perfect. As much as I love No.12 (and, as much as I believe I could play it if my time constraints weren't so short) I don't think I have time to master it alongside of 'Pathetique' (it takes me a while to be perfectly satisfied with a Beethoven sonata... 'Moonlight' 3rd mvt. took me a year and a half.)

[phil13]

What grade is the etude Op.8 No.7 by Scriabin? I've been looking at that. Does anyone know how to play it, what the easiest and hardest parts are, etc?

AND ALSO...

I've been looking at Liszt's Sonetto de Petrarca No.104 in E major, but I can't find the music online. Anyone know where to find it? Anyone know how hard it is?

I think, with those two and 'Pathetique', I'll be okay. But I still need the answers.

Phil

[phil13]

Actually, forget about the Liszt. I can't play it for audition requirements anyway. It has to be Chopin, Schumann, or Brahms.

I don't care for Brahms. Any good Chopin pieces you would suggest? (Ideally, nocturnes, polonaises, and waltzes. Preludes and mazurkas are too short, and I don't want to learn a Chopin etude unless it's for the etude requirement- hence the Scriabin above.)

Phil

[phil13]

Ok, I'm kinda worried that no one is posting, but here's the new program for the auditions.

Bach- Transcription of Chorale Prelude for Organ No.2 'Sleepers, Wake'

Beethoven- Sonata No.8 Op.13 'Pathetique'

Chopin- One of these four: Impromptu No.51 in Gb major, Nocturne in C# minor Op. posth., Nocturne in C# minor Op. 27 No.1, Polonaise in C minor Op. 40 No.2

Debussy- Prelude Book I No.10 'The Sunken Cathedral'

Scriabin (etude requirement)- Etude Op. 8 No.11 in Bb minor OR Etude in C# minor Op.2 No.1

And PLEASE don't slam me about playing the Beethoven... One overplayed piece is not going to kill me, especially if I get it so musical and beautiful that it knocks the judges to the floor.

Phil

[mlsmithz]

As per your request, Phil, here's my take on this programme - seems to cover the variety requirement of any good audition quite well, and opting for an etude by Scriabin rather than someone like Chopin is a wise choice, as Scriabin, though not exactly underplayed, is not overplayed either.  The Bach may have been overplayed in times gone by, but I think it's ebbed to the point where it should be fairly easy to make it sound fresh. (Just remember - there are some professional recordings of this piece that miss this! - the melody is in the middle voice! ) And of the three Debussy pieces you listed, if overplayed pieces are a concern then 'Sunken Cathedral' is the best of the three - though the other two are some of the most moving music Debussy composed, they've also been recorded thousands of times, so if you're strongly inclined toward the Pathetique, I'd say it's best to avoid including too many other frequently recorded/performed pieces, as I'm sure the judges will be hearing them many times over the course of the auditions.

And as for the Pathetique itself, you do make a good point that if you can make it sound fresh and exciting, it will overcome the fact that it is one of Beethoven's most frequently performed works.  I heard Krystian Zimerman perform both the Pathetique and the Waldstein as the first half of a concert in 1998, and was absolutely wowed by both pieces even though I'd heard them dozens of times simply because he was able to make them sound new and exciting.  It may take at least as much time to make the Pathetique sound fresh as it does to master the technical side, but if you can do it, that alone should impress the judges.

Best of luck with whatever programme you choose!

[phil13]

As per your request, Phil, here's my take on this programme - seems to cover the variety requirement of any good audition quite well, and opting for an etude by Scriabin rather than someone like Chopin is a wise choice, as Scriabin, though not exactly underplayed, is not overplayed either.  The Bach may have been overplayed in times gone by, but I think it's ebbed to the point where it should be fairly easy to make it sound fresh. (Just remember - there are some professional recordings of this piece that miss this! - the melody is in the middle voice! ) And of the three Debussy pieces you listed, if overplayed pieces are a concern then 'Sunken Cathedral' is the best of the three - though the other two are some of the most moving music Debussy composed, they've also been recorded thousands of times, so if you're strongly inclined toward the Pathetique, I'd say it's best to avoid including too many other frequently recorded/performed pieces, as I'm sure the judges will be hearing them many times over the course of the auditions.

And as for the Pathetique itself, you do make a good point that if you can make it sound fresh and exciting, it will overcome the fact that it is one of Beethoven's most frequently performed works.  I heard Krystian Zimerman perform both the Pathetique and the Waldstein as the first half of a concert in 1998, and was absolutely wowed by both pieces even though I'd heard them dozens of times simply because he was able to make them sound new and exciting.  It may take at least as much time to make the Pathetique sound fresh as it does to master the technical side, but if you can do it, that alone should impress the judges.

Best of luck with whatever programme you choose!

Thanks for your opinion! I know to get the middle voice in Sleepers, Wake (my teacher made me do it over and over until it was right.)

I've decided to go with Op.8 No.11 for the Scriabin, and possibly the Op.51 Chopin Impromptu. (unsure about that one)

Phil

[llamaman]

The Venetian Boat Song sounds brilliant. Doesn't 'alf show off yer trills 

[phil13]

The Venetian Boat Song sounds brilliant. Doesn't 'alf show off yer trills 

Way too easy to use in an audition. Maybe if I were playing the rest of the Songs Without Words from that particular opus, but they don't allow Mendelssohn anyway.

Phil