Rachmaninov - Prelude in b minor, Op 32 no 10

[m1469]

I love this music !!!

Piano : (in need of a tuning) Kawai
Recording equipment : Sony minidisc recorder, transfered to computer through Goldwave
Date Recorded :  About 45 mins before date and time of posting it.


m1469

[gruffalo]

Overall i liked it, but that was only until the first third was over. you have a good control over the piece, however the first third (roughly) sounded like you were being too careful, and lacked pace. im not good at detailed criticism, but i think that piece is very difficult to keep the attention of the listener for the first part of the piece, and i think a little more (but not much more) pace should do the trick. I liked the middle section, i think you managed the large chords well, i noticed you became a bit more ruthless with the piece and it gave a good effect. im just starting to learn this one now, so when i get my recording done in a few months (im at college so cant put many hours in) you can criticise mine 

[luvslive]

thank you for putting this up, i love the intensity of this piece...wish i could play as well.

[m1469]

Overall i liked it, but that was only until the first third was over. you have a good control over the piece, however the first third (roughly) sounded like you were being too careful, and lacked pace. im not good at detailed criticism, but i think that piece is very difficult to keep the attention of the listener for the first part of the piece, and i think a little more (but not much more) pace should do the trick.

Yes, I probably was being too careful and I agree that I could pick up the pace a little bit, especially where it actually asks for it  (and I did not really deliver).

I liked the middle section, i think you managed the large chords well, i noticed you became a bit more ruthless with the piece and it gave a good effect.

Thanks, I feel your choice of wording, "ruthless" is probably a good choice.  I hear what you are talking about.  The only thing I am thinking with regard to this section and your comments on the opening section, is that I like how it unfolds.  Or should I say, I perceive the piece as an unfoldment (I suppose every piece is).

im just starting to learn this one now, so when i get my recording done in a few months (im at college so cant put many hours in) you can criticise mine 

It's a deal 


Thank you both for your comments.

m1469

[gruffalo]

i like the very opening. i do agree with the whole method of unfolding a piece, but in my opinion i would restrict it to the first few bars, and then get it moving a bit. by i would say only increase the pace by a very small fraction. are you going to re-record?

im working on getting my recording equipment at the moment and hopefully the piece willl be ready sometime february.

[m1469]

are you going to re-record?

Yes, I suppose I will.... probably in the next few weeks.

im working on getting my recording equipment at the moment and hopefully the piece willl be ready sometime february.

I will look forward to it, and I will not be too mean


m1469

[zheer]

I listend to this last night but couldnt think of anything to say. However i will say the first things that came into my mind which is that you are not a 6ft tall russian with large hand and massive physical strenght, and that  is obvious once you reach tme middle section, aside from that its all playd musically which is what matters. I will look at the notes at some point.All the best.

[m1469]

I listend to this last night but couldnt think of anything to say. However i will say the first things that came into my mind which is that you are not a 6ft tall russian with large hand and massive physical strenght, and that  is obvious once you reach tme middle section, aside from that its all playd musically which is what matters. I will look at the notes at some point.All the best.

hmmmmm.... as it turns out, we can both tell a little bit about each other as a result of me posting this recording.  Or at least one of us can  .


Thanks for listening, and for your comments,

m1469

[m1469]

I listend to this last night but couldnt think of anything to say. However i will say the first things that came into my mind which is that you are not a 6ft tall russian with large hand and massive physical strenght, and that  is obvious once you reach tme middle section, aside from that its all playd musically which is what matters. I will look at the notes at some point.All the best.

I wanted to add that, I have had a lesson with a wonderful woman just hours ago with this piece and she worked with me on getting more use of my power.  I did indeed develop more sound in general, including this section, so when I record again, perhaps that will be evident. :-



m1469

[zheer]

I wanted to add that, I have had a lesson with a wonderful woman just hours ago with this piece and she worked with me on getting more use of my power.  I did indeed develop more sound in general, including this section, so when I record again, perhaps that will be evident. 

m1469

    Oooooooooooooo,    temper temper.
Only kidding am happy for you, i still have not looked at the notes, am not sure if you are playing the middle section correctly, i hope am wrong.

[gruffalo]

I will look forward to it, and I will not be too mean

please be mean. i take all criticism seriously, but at the same time you have to be very complementary and say how much of a great pianist i am only joking. but seriously about the mean stuff.

[m1469]

please be mean.

yes, okay 

[pianorama]

please be mean.

Wow. that's the 1st time I've ever heard someone say that.

[gruffalo]

its the only way forward.

[iumonito]

I think it sounds great.

I have two experiments for you, if you are interested in trying them out:

1) for the fingery part right before the recap, what about trying to sweep the keyboard with your fingers.  It is a grasping motion.  This has always sounded to me like Rachmaninov got his inner Art Tatum out for a spin.

2) For the part with the chords, where apparently so many want more power, I actually think of it the opposite way.  In such a passage I like great distance dynamically between the melody notes and the repeated chords, which do not need more force, their power coming from accumulation.  I would say try playing the melody notes just a tad lowder than mf to ff while playing the chords with a pesante mp.  Lost of pedal and rubato.  Think of the Titanic going through this, its power is a matter of mass, rather than force or speed.

Good job!

[I Love Xenakis]

I thoroughly enjoyed your interpretation of this piece.  I felt that you brought out all of the sorrowful emotions in this piece masterfully.

[m1469]

Thank you both, for your recent comments. 


Iumonito-

I will experiment with what you have commented on.  Thank you for taking the time to type that out


m1469

[AvoidedCadence]

I played this piece last year, so a lot of this is from experience/my teacher.  Also sorry if it seems dumb, or obvious, or sounds like an adjudication - I am not skilled at talking about music.

I love this piece!  Very difficult though, musically!  You have to create the Russian choir, the dark church, the bells, the mist.  Of course Rach/Moisevitsch called it "The Return" but to me it sounds like a funeral .... here are some suggestions:

i) your pace isn't too slow necessarily, but the problem is that you are holding the tied melody notes too long - try beating time one-two-three-four to the bar and you'll see what I mean.  This will help fix your pulse. (Like CPR!)

ii) bar 11/12 - be more free and improvisatory here  - the repeated motive is growing longer and more impassioned here - think deep Russian basses. (although you don't have to speed up much - save that for the poco piu mosso).  Bar 12 - the top LH G-natural needs some emphasis for contrapuntal reasons.  Don't be afraid to roll that chord - its much easier, and the delay emphasizes the G nicely.  Bars 11-13 should be more continuous. 

iii) bar 14 - more motion - carried away by sadness here, but very smoothly - no sudden changes of tempo at the begininning or end of this section.

iv) bar 19 - When the dotted rhythm appears in the accompaniment triplets, the F# in your recording stands out too much - it is the E before that which is stressed.  in this section, try for more melody, less accompaniment.  Your 'choir' is only singing the melody.  These inner chords are just sustaining, resonating.  Also, at "Tempo I" start softer and BUILD through this section - it's soo dramatic, saves energy, --- building the accompaniment gradually will help you with this.

v) l'istesso tempo - here you need to balance and project the outer AND inner lines!  This is the hardest part of the piece to me, esp. w/the double notes. Watch the rhythm again - sometimes you are clipping the 16ths and making them 32nds.  Bar 42 - grow, with a feeling of terrible excitement ... Also watch bars 43 and 44 - the new rhythm on the 2nd and 4th beats: the double notes continue one 32nd after the upper voice now.  Try to show that more, even if you don't take it in strict time (the skips to double notes are hard!)

vi) bar 46/47 - last/first notes in the LH across this barline are stressed - maybe hold back a touch before falling into the cadenza to emphasize.  It's the main melody notes, condensed - this is a climactic moment, a passionate outcry, &c.

vii) bars 59/60 - the idea of a B major chord transforming into B minor occurs twice here - a ray of hope appears and then is quashed (twice).  Heart-rending.  Make a decresc from the first to the second chord each time (and an overall decresc over the two repititions) - the effect is tragic.  It sounds like you are already drawing attention to the "minorness" (lowered 3rd) of the second chord.  Good job.

Also, check bars 57/58 - it sounds like you played the wrong bar by accident?  Or maybe it's just late at night and I have class tomorrow....

Great job - record and post it again sometime...

Sorry this post is so long .... this piece is not easy, yet so worthwhile.

[m1469]

Thank you for your response AvoidedCadence, actually, I appreciate the length


When I dig myself out of this hole, I am going to be recording this again. 



Thanks all,
m1469