piano improv by me (I put more work into this than repertoire or technique)

[Derek]

complex, neo-romantic/modern piano improv

[Derek]

wow, does anybody give a flying rat's behind about improv?  =)

[pianowolfi]

There are really many very beautiful moments in this. Haven't listened to the whole yet because it's actually more than 30 min. long.    ok length is not a criterion.

[Derek]

There are really many very beautiful moments in this. Haven't listened to the whole yet because it's actually more than 30 min. long.    ok length is not a criterion.

Did you get near the half way mark? There's some very intense material around there.

Thank you pianowolfi. I appreciate any and all comments. Yes, it is quite long. I seem to write best when I play for a long time. I'm trying to develop the ability to improvise shorter pieces but so far these are not quite as interesting as my longer material. I can really "lose myself" when I play for a long time if that makes sense, and in the act of losing myself, find myself, musically.

[quantum]

I enjoyed it.  It seems that your longer improvs are quite sectional, and there is clear division between episodes. 

1:12 - change of harmony was cool
3:30 and 4:30 - alternating RH pattern had nice sound
5:40 - kind of sounds winterish, like fresh fallen snow.
6:40 - nice sequence.
8:20 - cool agitato
10:20 - I like the modes
11:25 - sad and longing
12:50 - nice encompassing sounds
14:50 - cool
15:33 - I like the sweeping sequence accross the entire piano range
16:30 - Reminds me of De Falla and some Spanish music
17:50 - I hear some Ravel or Satie influences
19:10 - now some Debussy like runs
20:30 - I like the effect of the LH boom-chick, like a twisted march
21:16 - I love that introduction of the flat-7th scale degree
24:20 - introducton of repeaded chords as accomp., similar to what Scriabin did
27:00 - I like the low notes
30:24 - I like the rests inbetween chords, more would have been nice
31:15 - Reminds me of Jarrett


You make pretty good use of the bass end of the keyboard.  You may want to experiment with the top most range too, sometimes you dab a high note or an arpeggio goes into that range, but you don't regularly use those top noes (not as much as you utilize the bass). 

[Derek]

wow, thanks Quantum! I appreciate the long list of musical observations. It's really fun to get those from people cause one's own subjective reactions to one's own music are usually very different.  Yes, I'm aware I have a habit of staying in the low or middle registers. I rarely stay up high for very long.  I really love being awash with resonant tones...you can hear that preference in all of my playing. especially the passage you called "cool" where I hit a huge tolling open 9th chord at the bottom and then play arpeggios all over the place. I really dig stuff like that, haha.   I haven't been on this site in a while so I think I will download some of your recent work!   Man, why aren't there more people who are obsessed with improv like we are. It is SO FUN. I put more work into it than I do into repertoire and technique. Of course, that is a luxury for me because I am an amateur and have no intentions of becoming a professional musician of any kind!

[quantum]

Well I think most people haven't experienced enough improvising themselves to really appreciate its value.  To those who work on repertoire most of the time, it may seem daunting that all of a sudden they are given so much freedom in improv. 

[Derek]

You bring up a good point. I started piano playing (with the exception of some early lessons where I learned the notes of the keyboard, and some very basic reading skills) with improv and THEN began learning traditional repertoire and technique.  Freedom was the home base, the comfort zone, for me. Going from there to playing written pieces was fairly easy.  Perhaps this reveals a fundamental flaw in piano pedagogy?  Or at least, improvisation should be encouraged in those who seem naturally inclined to do so.  I bet there are many pianists out there who BELIEVE they can't do it, just because they have never tried, but who could be very good at it if they did try and learn.

I know for a fact it isn't something that just APPEARs. you work at it. it is a very gradual process...just like anything. you start simple, and you gradually gradually build up vocabulary. and it is SO worth it.

[pianistimo]

improve the lh dexterity and you'll have more 'crossovers' where you take what you are doing in the rh and go into the left hand.  but, overall - you are quite creative.  you are great with new harmonies and some of the rhythms.

have you tried recording three levels?  maybe if you don't feel as dexterous in the left hand - you can actually play with the right hand on the second or third level? 

[Derek]

Three levels?  you mean three voices playing in counterpoint? I indulge in this practice often, typically with one voice in the left hand and two voices in the right hand. Thanks for your suggestion---I do hope to get my left hand as good as my right hand eventually...or at the very least, farther along than it is!

[will]

Very good improvisation Derek, thanks for that.
I may comment further later on but for now I'm checking out your music from myspace.

[poltergeist]

don't quit yer day job.....

[henrah]

I like improvising too. I find my improvs are a lot slower, and don't have much melody in them either. Usually I make a mistake, and then go with that mistake, evolving it into something else.

Your improv here is very nice Derek, very nice indeed! Any tips you can offer in improvising? My improvising is mostly looking at what I just played and seeing if there could be any adjustments that might sound right. I don't really take keys or cadences into consideration very much.
Henrah

[piano121]

Realy love your improv. Very inspiring, it could play for hours!

[henrah]

Every time I listen to it, I like it more and more - such well placed dissonances!

Seriously Derek, wonderful work!
Henrah

[Derek]

thanks for the additional replies, guys! maybe putting that note in there about how much work I put into it helped. I think people often assume improv is just "noodling." For me and for many others on this site it is WAY more than that!

I like improvising too. I find my improvs are a lot slower, and don't have much melody in them either. Usually I make a mistake, and then go with that mistake, evolving it into something else.

Your improv here is very nice Derek, very nice indeed! Any tips you can offer in improvising? My improvising is mostly looking at what I just played and seeing if there could be any adjustments that might sound right. I don't really take keys or cadences into consideration very much.
Henrah

Well, there's definitely no rules that say you  must use key signatures or cadences...but if you like the sound of them go ahead and use them in your improv. I like to mix old school techniques with modern ones, so sometimes you'll hear very common progressions in my improv but then out of the blue I might do a sudden key shift.

In terms of tips... there are all sorts of ways to improve your improvising.  My personal favorite is recording yourself. If you do this you will hear the random things you did that were good that you didn't REALIZE were good while you were improvising them. Then you can use that as a basis for something else, etc. It helps your memory grow.

The big thing about improvisation is you must acquire a very large and very flexible physical vocabulary. The more ways your hands can move around the keyboard, the better able you'll be to arrange these into interesting music.  When just starting out,  try just playing simple triads in one hand and melody in the other.  Eventually you might want to use more interesting accompaniment in the left hand....and beyond that you might want to experiment with contrapuntal improvisation, more than one idea going at one time.

You should keep in mind there are no rules while improvising. you don't need to follow part writing rules, you don't need to follow classical progressions, you don't need to follow anything. The only reason you should follow something is if you like it. that is the whole point anyway, I think!   

I could go forever but if you want to chat more about it feel free to pm me.

[henrah]

Thanks Derek! What you were able to put there will definately help me get a good idea about improvising!

[henrah]

Just want to say that I love the melody that comes in at 2:15, and also the sound that comes from 2:20 - my favourite parts!

Gonna check out yourspace,
Henrah

[lagin]

I have a suggestion, though I don't know much about improvising and haven't listened to it all the way through.  I was wondering about maybe using some more rests, perhaps even with fermatas?  There is so much good material here, but it all sort of runs into each other.  I was thinking of something similar to the opening of the Pathetique, though not in that much of an excess.  Beethoven really catches and grips our attention here because the silences add drama to the music.  Also, in Bartok, he uses rests and pauses and fermatas, to really say, "Now listen to what I'm going to do next!"  Often changes in mood are really "announced" this way, though, they are often a surprise as well.  I suppose it really depends on one's style of improve, too, but it think it would cause it to sound more like a written "piece" rather than, well, improv!  Unless, of course, that's the sound you're going for.

Also, this is trully just a personal preference, but I think if you put even more rhythmic motives, and/or some slower chordal sections, it would sound less "noodley" for a lack of a better word.  Right now, it sort of reminds me of Ravel, in that, it runs all over the piano, for the most part, which is hard for an audience to stay attentive to for long periods of time.  But this you can take or leave, because that's just my personal musical tastes.

But it's definately awesome, Derek!

[Derek]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, Lagin! I've received the comment about adding more rests before.  Amusingly, I've provided the suggestion of slower chordy sections to some of my improvising friends---I suppose all such judgements are relative.  I think I'm doing better with rests...parts that slow down and provide contrast, etc. than I have in the past,  but as you point out it is something well worth considering and adding to my music.  Thanks again! 

Recently I've been improvising sets of short pieces. I haven't fully developed my style in this genre yet, but once I do I will probably upload some. These tend to sound much more organized and composed than these half hour tapestries I usually create.  However I intend to continue creating both since I love the sensation of an "endless adventure" that the half hour tapestry improv provides.

[maestoso]

Extremely cool. it frustrates me i can't create like that! It reminds me alot of safe room music on survival horror games calm yet eerie, like there is light outside but shadows sway back and forth behind and things move in the peripheral. nice work. how long have you been playing? I love to write my own stuff too but i have a long way to go to create something as powerful as that.

[Derek]

I've been playing obsessively for a little bit over six years now. I had had some piano lessons prior to that, could play the first page of Fur Elise, but the vast majority of what I can play and improvise comes from the last six years. It isn't as hard as it sounds, but at the same time it does take a lot of hard work and dedication.  If you want to take your improv to the next level, you've got to get outside your comfort zone.  A lot of people tend to stick within one limited palette of textures and melodies and harmonies etc.  What you must do is do something you haven't done in the past.  Get comfortable with doing really strange things at the keyboard, chromaticisms etc.  Learn all 24 keys and their chords and positions  (not necessarily in any order, just try using ones you aren't comfortable with more often---they'll become part of you very quickly).   Also you have to focus almost entirely on the sound you are creating---be FASCINATED with the sound, and the fact that it is a product of your own mind.  If you focus on improv in this way, it will grow naturally.  Never be afraid of mistakes...never be afraid of not sounding as good as other composers. Lash out adventurously...don't be a perfectionist, etc.  I could go on forever about it lol.  If you want to chat about it or anything feel free to pm me. (that goes for anyone interested!!)

[maestoso]

it totally inspired me to work on improv. i went home at lunch today and just messed around and i came up with some good ideas. as far as the theory goes i got that strong but putting it together fluidly is something i have trouble doing plus i've only been playing for five months so that limits me because i want to do crazy stuff but my fingers are retarded at the moment lol! it's cool that you make stuff up alot of people want just to play repertoire that other composers write, im from the mind that i want to learn the techniques and the skills involved and write my own stuff. don't get me wrong i love playing classical repertoire but ultimately i want to create for myself. so do you just practice scales and chords and stuff as such?

[Derek]

I'm really glad I helped you!  Very occasionally will I practice up and down scale exercises and the like. Usually this is to fine tune my ability to play evenly and so forth, for playing classical repertoire. In terms of practicing scales, chords, etc. for improvisation,  the more random your "practice" the better.  If you practice a pattern like a scale or a chord progression too many times the same way, it may become so habitual it will be difficult to go outside of it. Basically just keep steering outside your comfort zone. Haven't played much in F# minor? start playing around in it and using its constituent chords etc.  Haven't played in G minor? mess around in it more.   Haven't used chromatic "wrong" notes much? start using them, see if you like them. If it comes out sounding "wrong" it really doesn't matter.  But the point is by doing this sometimes something will come out that will sound good.  My advice is to record yourself as often as possible and then listen to yourself. When you're new to improv it is hard to remember what you recently played;  recording helps capture those odd moments that came out sounding good, then you can remember more or less how you achieved that effect and play it in other positions etc.

[p.hindemith]

This topic is already somewhat 'older', but I just had to comment on it.

Derek, this is awesome stuff man!! I'm not really in the position to give you advice, or to comment on your 'vocabulary' but I just want to say that I really love this improvisation of yours. I just can hear that you're very passionate about it, the music comes right from the heart. And besides that, it sounds awesome.

The part at around 12 minutes is my favourite, it's very, very beautiful. I'm going to listen to this improvisation again and again, I think.

Well, I just wanted to encourage you, and I hope you will post more improvisations in the future! Keep it up man, your playing  - at least to my ears - displays the real nature of art.

[Derek]

Thanks so much for the kind remarks, man. Glad you enjoyed it! I've been posting improvs on this site for quite a while..I probably won't stop either! I've been very preoccupied since September with graduating college but hopefully in the next few months I'll put up a couple of new ones.

-Derek