The greatest single classical piano solo recording of all time

[mikebechstein]

I think this should be limited to a single piece (i.e. a single sonata or waltz rather than a set of waltzes or a complete set of sonatas. A list of possible choices would be even better as I am hoping to discover some that I have yet to hear.

My fist choice today, and it varies between a few different pieces depending on my mood, would be:

Lipatti - Ravel’s Alborada del Gracioso.

[desordre]

 Although I agree that it shall change, my best answer would be Mrs. Martha Argerich playing Liszt's Sonata.
 

[cmg]

Well, it's hard to argue with Argerich's Liszt Sonata, which has always, until recently, been my favorite performance on record.  But, a new recording by Arnaldo Cohen, I think, begins with her astonishing techinical mastery and supercedes it with an expressiveness that, I feel, Argerich sometimes throws aside in her breathless dashes through the supreme technical hurdles of that piece.  Cohen's new recording is on Bis and includes a "Vallee d'Obermann" that even outdoes Horowitz.  He has a gorgeous sound and a great singer's way with line. 

All that said, Joyce Hatto's recording of the Prokofiev War Sonatas out distances both of these colossal artists.  She is surely the most ignored and underrated pianist of our time.  Such a mystery!   

[pies]

4'33"

[arensky]

4'33"

hahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehahaheeheehohohohohohohohoheeheheeheehohohohohahahohohahahohohahahohohahahohohahahohohahahohohahahohohahahohohahahohohahahohoheeheeheeheehee

HAH !                                               

[arensky]

Josef Hofmann playing his own composittion, "The Sanctuary".

[Waldszenen]

Hmm isn't this topic also in Performance?

Or maybe I'm seeing things, never mind.

[jakev2.0]

Probably one of TruMofo's "canadian m*therfucker" improvs.

[shasta]

Depending on my mood:

Hamelin - Chopin-Godowsky etude 10/2 (2nd version) "Ignis fatuus."  Makes me swear every time.

de Larrocha - Danzas Espanolas #5 (Andaluza) by Granados.  Sparkling and brilliant.

Andjaparidze - Confrey's Kitten on the Keys.  Such energy!

Pollini - Chopin Etude 10/4.  Sharp as a tack.

Volodos - his transcription of Flight Of The Bumblebee.  Ridiculous.

Ashkenazy - Rach's Corelli variations.  Powerful and breathtaking.

[mephisto]

Volodos - his transcription of Flight Of The Bumblebee.  Ridiculous.

It is Cziffra's transcription, and his live version is even more stunning.

[avetma]

Pogorelich - Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit

[shasta]

It is Cziffra's transcription, and his live version is even more stunning.

Yes, of course.  Thanks for correcting me.

Wow, you've seen him perform?  Must have been amazing.  I've never seen him live.

[mephisto]

Sadly I have never seen him live, it is a bootleg from Paris.

[sevencircles]

Hamelin - Chopin-Godowsky etude 10/2 (2nd version) "Ignis fatuus."  Makes me swear every time.

Have you heard Libetta“s recording?

[jre58591]

Have you heard Libetta“s recording?

libetta's isnt as clean. also i dont think his voices are distinct enough. hamelin definitely owns the chopin-godowsky etudes. no question about it.

[jakev2.0]

Rachmaninov - Chopin Sonata 2
Gould - Goldberg Variations (81)

But strictly, I think the greatest single piano solo recording of all time is Schnabel playing the slow mvt of Hammerklavier.

PS: Berezovsky owns the Godowsky etudes. He understands the polyphony very well and is basically just an exciting virtuoso...you can hear all sorts of weird little voices jumping out in his 'Ignis Fatuus'. Berezovksy gives a much better account than the totally overrated Libetta (who is a show-off without much to say about the music) and Hamelin, who is cold and equally clueless in terms of insight into the music

[jre58591]

PS: Berezovsky owns the Godowsky etudes. He understands the polyphony very well and is basically just an exciting virtuoso...you can hear all sorts of weird little voices jumping out in his 'Ignis Fatuus'. Berezovksy gives a much better account than the totally overrated Libetta (who is a show-off without much to say about the music) and Hamelin, who is cold and equally clueless in terms of insight into the music.

technically, there is no way berezovsky can own the chopin-godowsky etudes. he hasnt played/recorded all of them, to my knowledge. i just listened to both berezovsky's and hamelin's recordings of ignis fatuus very closely. clearly, berezovsky's technique doesnt match hamelin's. the chromatic scale in berezovsky's left hand is pretty distinct, but at certain points, especially in the beginning. also, ive noticed that hamelin makes the bottom left hand voice in the second half of the piece very distinct and legato. berezovsky makes it barely audible and uneven. also, please explain these "weird little voices jumping out". so, one can infer that, after comparing these two recordings side to side, that berezovsky is the one that is cold and clueless, where as hamelin actually understands what he is playing and acts upon it. however, you are right in the sense that berezovsky is "basically just an exciting virtuoso". however, that is all that he is, in this case. jake , it seems to me that you merely seize any oppurtunity to bash hamelin for his accomplishments. just remember: he isnt perfect, but he has accomplished many things that many professional pianists arent capable of today, and that alone deserves a ton of respect.

[sevencircles]

libetta's isnt as clean. also i dont think his voices are distinct enough. hamelin definitely owns the chopin-godowsky etudes. no question about it.

Haven“t heard any liverecording of Hamelin playing it but Libetta“s was very fast and impressive.

Any recording of Hamelin playing it live?

I do believe that Godowsky himself propably played these works better then anyone else from a technical standpoint (in his prime at least.

[jre58591]

Any recording of Hamelin playing it live?

I do believe that Godowsky himself propably played these works better then anyone else from a technical standpoint (in his prime at least.

i dont think hamelin has played ignis fatuus live, but he has played the other 10-2 transcription (for the left hand) live. and yes, i would agree that godowsky would have owned these technically. he was the composer, after all.

[opus10no2]

Hamelin only excells in selected Godowsky studies; his studio recordings are pretty slow on the whole, and very 'safe'.

It's all really good playing, but when were used to performances like Richter's 1'31 original 10/4, and then hear Hamelin's 3 minute traversal of the corresponding left hand study, it just sounds weak.

Berezovsky owns the ones he concentrates on, but I believe Libetta is the true master of these studies, he seems to play them all at a uniformly high level.

Godowsky, judging from existing recordings, had sub-Libetta level technique.

[sevencircles]

Godowsky, judging from existing recordings, had sub-Libetta level technique.

Maybe. Godowsky had small hands and could reach only reach an octave I believe.

Libetta has the most impressive liverecordings from a technical respect (Not the cleanest perhaps)

He is weak from a musical respect  though but so is Hamelin I think.

[brahmsian]

It's all really good playing, but when were used to performances like Richter's 1'31 original 10/4, and then hear Hamelin's 3 minute traversal of the corresponding left hand study, it just sounds weak.

Maybe so, but you can't even compare the two pieces. Same thing with Godowsky's Winter Wind study, with the RH in the original played by the left. Its way more awkward, hence slower time.

[jakev2.0]

Libetta (along with Wunder) is the most overrated pianist playing today. To me it sounds like he is just trying to get through the Godowsky when he plays it. He's not a very powerful player, his phrasings are empty headed, and he is probably the worst pedaler of all professional pianists.

Even in his disappointing recorded output, there are examples of Godowsky demonstrating his fantastic speed, leggiero technique (Scherzo 4), unique voicing (finale of Chopin B flat minor sonata and his Schubert transcriptions) and a great depth of understanding (Grieg ballade). Godowsky was clearly a master technician and it is really regrettable that people don't think he was ever capable of doing justice to his own works!

[jre58591]

[Hamelin's] studio recordings are pretty slow on the whole, and very 'safe'.

what the heck are you smoking? please name an example.

[opus10no2]

Most of them, standouts being the LH 10/2 10/4 and the 10/8 expansion.

[jre58591]

Most of them, standouts being the LH 10/2 10/4 and the 10/8 expansion.

define "too slow".

[chromatickler]

for the 10/8 Hamelin clocks in at 3'03 while libetta live is 2'20. That is a speed difference of 31%

Just to put this into perspective, the most laughably inept recording of any original chopin etude is undoubtedly the Rusnak 10/2. It clocks in at 1'48, while the FASTEST tempo marking for this etude in any edition (144) works out to be 1'22. That is a speed difference of 32%

feel free to draw your own conclusions

 

[rob47]

horowitz in moscow scriabin etude 8#12

[sevencircles]

Libetta (along with Wunder) is the most overrated pianist playing today.

What about David Helfgott?

Among nonclassical pianist we have Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard.

Extremely overrated even today.

[Goldberg]

define "too slow".

Define "idiocy."

:

for the 10/8 Hamelin clocks in at 3'03 while libetta live is 2'20. That is a speed difference of 31%

Just to put this into perspective, the most laughably inept recording of any original chopin etude is undoubtedly the Rusnak 10/2. It clocks in at 1'48, while the FASTEST tempo marking for this etude in any edition (144) works out to be 1'22. That is a speed difference of 32%

feel free to draw your own conclusions

 

 

Really, people who make absurd, un-developed, mindless babblings that pose as "critiques" on the basis of tempo understand next to nothing about music. They do understand that there exists such a feature in music as tempo, however, but as we all know, little knowledge is dangerous. Or worse, as in this case, it can be agonizingly difficult to tolerate.

Now please, before I waste my energy telling you why you and everyone else who agrees with you is wrong about Hamelin being too slow or unmusical, or whatever, try again to tell me why you criticize Hamelin for being "too" slow. In this I will expect a real definition of what it means to be "too slow," and an in-depth (preferably an attempt at intelligence) survey of how this definition pertains to Hamelin's recordings.

[chromatickler]

Now please, before I waste my energy telling you why you and everyone else who agrees with you is wrong about Hamelin being too slow or unmusical, or whatever, try again to tell me why you criticize Hamelin for being "too" slow. In this I will expect a real definition of what it means to be "too slow," and an in-depth (preferably an attempt at intelligence) survey of how this definition pertains to Hamelin's recordings.

where did i say hamelin is too slow?
where did i say hamelin was unmusical?
where did i offer a single piece of OPINION regarding hamelin in my post?

it's always a good idea to make sure you can read before attempting to write.

to start you off, next week i would like a real definition of the phrase:

"feel free to draw your own conclusions" 

[mephisto]

for the 10/8 Hamelin clocks in at 3'03 while libetta live is 2'20. That is a speed difference of 31%

Just to put this into perspective, the most laughably inept recording of any original chopin etude is undoubtedly the Rusnak 10/2. It clocks in at 1'48, while the FASTEST tempo marking for this etude in any edition (144) works out to be 1'22. That is a speed difference of 32%

feel free to draw your own conclusions

 

Your argument is wrong.

You have to put the fastes 10,2 against the slowest, not slowest against the norm. Just like you did with the Chop-Gods.

[chromatickler]

You have to put the fastes 10,2 against the slowest

IF i was trying to prove 'Hamelin has EXACTLY the same level of technical proficiency as Rusnak', which i was not.

and if i WAS trying to do that, i would have to make sure the sample size was the same.

for statistical purposes, the difference between the fastest and slowest 10/2 out of 2000 recordings will average to more than 3 times the difference between the fastest and slowest lh 10/4 out of 6 or 7 recordings in ANY disturbution . By barely halving the sample difference (1'22-1'48 instead of 1'01-1'48) i would already be over-compensating on Hamelin's part, again IF i was trying to prove what you were suggesting.

 

[mephisto]

I didn't imply anything. Simple what your "considerations" are missleading.

[chromatickler]

I didn't imply anything. Simple what your "considerations" are missleading.

true, hence what i just explained: that the facts i presented can only be misleading AGAINST what i was perceived to be arguing FOR. and in this case, apparently with minimal effect 

[opus10no2]

Well, the primary cosequence of me thinking Hamelin's Chopin-Godowsky is on the whole too slow, is me believing they are substandard works.

I once thought that the LH 10/4 wasa cumbersome mule of a piece, with a phallus hardly worthy of a mollusc.

I was wrong, and it was Hamelin's fault for providing such a weak performance.

[jre58591]

tehre is something called subjectivity that you all seem to lose sight of. no one here is right or wrong. lets leave it at that rather than killing each other.

[opus10no2]

However; nothing is more objective than a stopwatch.

Be realistic, do you enjoy Hamelin's Lh 10/4 as much as Berezovsky's and Libetta's?

[jakev2.0]

Barere MIGHT have owned that etude, imo.

[opus10no2]

His LH prowess was indeed rather notable.

[jre58591]

Be realistic, do you enjoy Hamelin's Lh 10/4 as much as Berezovsky's and Libetta's?

in terms of speed, no. in terms of accuracy, moreso.

[jakev2.0]

The critics agree!

Hamelin's Godowsky Etudes

"Incredible accuracy" - Pedant Weekly
"He sure hits all the notes" - Pedestrian Quarterly
"Truly Godowsky himself could not have been as accurate with these treacherously difficult etudes" - Music for people who hate music monthly

[jre58591]

lets drop the subject and get back to discussing what the "greatest recording of all time" is. this hamelin/anti-hamelin debate will get nowhere. also, on the whole, hamelin is better than libetta or berezovsky will ever be. end of story.

[jakev2.0]

Better than Libetta, sure. That guy can't even play the piano properly. But better than Berezovsky? That's like saying Michelle Trachtenberg is hotter than Scarlett Johansson.

[jre58591]

But better than Berezovsky? That's like saying Michelle Trachtenberg is hotter than Scarlett Johansson.

you have to take everything into account. hamelin, for one, has a massive rep, and berezovsky doesnt. just check out hamelin's 50 or so CDs and compare to berezovsky's pitiful output. hamelin also has a better technique (listen to ignis fatuus  for a great example). also, berezovsky may have power, but when his fury increases, his tech and interpretation decrease. watch his liszt transcendental etudes for an example (mazeppa in particular). also, hamelin has a bad reputation when it comes to interpretation, but he plays it like it is, no more, no less. i can say just about the same about berezovsky. sure, a few godowsky etudes of berezovsky's may be "better" speedwise, but in terms of technique and interpretation, hamelin owns.

[sevencircles]

hamelin is better than libetta or berezovsky will ever be. end of story.

How do you know?

Many people become better and better  after they have passed 40.

Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9lVgaoDrE to see him Hamelin destroy one of the finest sonatas ever composed.

In the second movement he rushes through the themes like 

[ahinton]

lets drop the subject and get back to discussing what the "greatest recording of all time" is. this hamelin/anti-hamelin debate will get nowhere. also, on the whole, hamelin is better than libetta or berezovsky will ever be. end of story.

Or, before that happens, let's at least turn the lights off Hamelin in particular for a moment and consider the fact that, since it is clear that this thread has so far incited what seems to be a disproportionate number of posts about Hamelin's and others' performances and recordings of those remarkable Chopin/Godowsky Studies, no one has yet mentioned two other pianists who play(ed) the complete cycle of these - Carlo Grante and Joyce Hatto (the latter of whom has so far had but one mention here - and in a context other than these studies).

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

An impossible choice to make! But I will for the sake of argument nominate Simon Barere's live 1947 Liszt sonata. A grandiose romantic reading, full of virtuosity and poetry, and imo considerably less mannered than, for example, the "classic" account by Arrau.

 I was going to try and avoid any mention of "frivolous" music, but really I must also mention Cziffra's own paraphrases on William Tell and Il trovatore; performances of outrageous virtuosity.

[jre58591]

i, for one, dont think carlo grante's chopin-godowsky studies match hamelin's, but,  for further review, i need to listen to the album a few more times. i havent come across hatto's yet.

[opus10no2]

I was going to try and avoid any mention of "frivolous" music, but really I must also mention Cziffra's own paraphrases on William Tell and Il trovatore; performances of outrageous virtuosity.

The Il trovatore is one of the best recs ive ever heard, really addictive.