Solace by Joplin

[rach n bach]

Tell me what you think!

Thanks,
  RnB

[pianistimo]

is this solace for me, per chance?  do you think i cannot get this sly humor.  i shall bash you with my speed if i ever meet you.

[rach n bach]

Possibly... 

Hey, personally I love the piece, it wasn't just directed at you...  So did you listen to it? What do you think?

Oh yes... and speed, well I won't post my arrangement of the Bach-Busoni Toccata in D minor then... wouldn't want to get the first hit in...   

[pianistimo]

i like it.  seems a slight bit slow - but am relaxing to it.  every so often you have this surge of passion.  it scares me.

[rach n bach]

Yeah, it was a little slow that time...  does it scare you in a good way, or a not-so-good way?

RnB

[pianistimo]

sorry about my teasing, before.  i really do like this.  it's relaxing and i don't care if you suddenly get 'carried away.'

[johnny-boy]

It does read "very slow" on the sheet music.

Here it is:
https://www.mfiles.co.uk/scores/Solace.pdf

John

[rach n bach]

No problem all... If I have one major fault, it is getting carried away with music...   

RnB

[pianowolfi]

Is that really a fault?

[rach n bach]

You got a point there....   

The only time it bugs me is when I am really just trying to work on the technical stuff, and I can't play it without some feeling... 

RnB 

[tocca]

Nice, played this one myself and i actually play it slower than this. To me this feels a bit hectic. 
Hard to say exactly how Joplin wanted it, that's the beauty of it... we each play our own way. I enjoyed your playing though, good work.

EDIT: I wrote the above while listening, just wanted to add one thing. In the ending part of the piece you get the rytm wrong in the left hand in a couple of places.
End of bar 74, 78 and 82. 

[rach n bach]

Thanks Tocca!  I absolutly love Joplin... it is such a nice change from the Chopin and Liszt. 

Yeah, the speed for this piece is very subjective..  I tend to play it about this fast so I don't "drag" but hey, if it works for you, great!

RnB

[tocca]

I made an edit to my above post while you were posting, wanted to let you know. 

[ada]

I really enjoyed listening to that. tks! 

I love this piece and I'm just about to get my teeth into it. Would you like to share any tips on how you approached it?

[johnny-boy]

I do remember Joplin saying "Ragtime should never be played fast".
This sounds about right to me:
https://www.vintageantiqueclassics.com/scottjoplin/solace_sample.html

Best, John

[tocca]

I do remember Joplin saying "Ragtime should never be played fast".
This sounds about right to me:
https://www.vintageantiqueclassics.com/scottjoplin/solace_sample.html

Best, John

Hmm, that doesn't sound like "Very slow march time" to me! Way way way too fast for my liking. That's my feeling atleast.

Here you can listen to a sample of Solace played by Joshua Rifkin, i own this CD and really like his playing. Maybe he plays Solace a liiiittle bit on the slow side but it sounds good in my view.
https://www.amazon.com/Scott-Joplin-Piano-Joshua-Rifkin/dp/B000005IYF   (Scroll down a bit).

[johnny-boy]

Yeah, there's no law on tempo. Each of us can play it at our desired speed. Of course sometimes we're not equipped to play it our desired tempo, so we convince ourselves it should be slower.

Here's the Joplin quote:
A note on tempo
Joplin left little doubt as to how his compositions should be performed: as a precaution against the prevailing tendency of the day to up the tempo, he explicitly wrote in many of his scores that "ragtime should never be played fast." According to Joplin biographer Rudi Blesh,

Best, John

[pianistimo]

good you said that!  very slow MARCH - would mean that you would be picking up your legs every now and then.

[johnny-boy]

Hmm, that doesn't sound like "Very slow march time" to me! Way way way too fast for my liking. That's my feeling atleast.

Here you can listen to a sample of Solace played by Joshua Rifkin, i own this CD and really like his playing. Maybe he plays Solace a liiiittle bit on the slow side but it sounds good in my view.
https://www.amazon.com/Scott-Joplin-Piano-Joshua-Rifkin/dp/B000005IYF   (Scroll down a bit).

That sounded painfully slow to me. Maybe a tempo somewhere between your link and mine. The bottom line; we can each choose our own tempo. Of course, if that's how Joplin wanted it...

This tempo dilemma occurs in any music where the composer uses vague terms rather than metronome settings. For instance; Beethoven’s “Fur Elise”. I’ve heard that played at many  different tempos.

John

[pianistimo]

yes.  i think you're right.  i'll listen to yours right now.  i don't mind slow rags.  mine is too fast.  the thing is - i like to hear them with syncopation throughout.  here's my version of the first page with syncopation:

[jlh]

Rach n Bach:

Your tempo is fine... I wouldn't change it unless you have reason to. 

My comments are that first you need to gauge your endings of the sections so they flow better and don't bring the piece to a halt.  Next, the second section (starts in F major) is too fast and not rhythmically accurate.  Keep the tempo flowing throughout and maybe use a metronome once or twice in the second section as a check.  As a personal preference, I think your intentional staccatos in the LH in the first section are out of place.  Detached would be a great thing to do in that place I think, but not so short they stand out.  You have a great start on this piece, but a bit more coherence and attention to the rhythm and a more steady beat would make your performance much more convincing.

[jlh]

I do remember Joplin saying "Ragtime should never be played fast".
This sounds about right to me:
https://www.vintageantiqueclassics.com/scottjoplin/solace_sample.html

Best, John

Is this a MIDI file?  Sounds like a lifeless machine gun punching away... lol

I prefer it a bit slower (not as slow as Rifkin plays it). 

[jlh]

yes.  i think you're right.  i'll listen to yours right now.  i don't mind slow rags.  mine is too fast.  the thing is - i like to hear them with syncopation throughout.  here's my version of the first page with syncopation:

Personally I think this much of a swing (btw it's not syncopation when you swing something) is not warranted by the style.  I don't hear this as a honky-tonk stride type of saloon music, but more like a ballade that maybe captures the essance of one's emotions while being away from someone you love, then being with them, and then being away from them again.  It's a piece that is full of comfort.  I think the title implies a more laid back approach.

[johnny-boy]

Is this a MIDI file?  Sounds like a lifeless machine gun punching away... lol

I prefer it a bit slower (not as slow as Rifkin plays it). 

Yeah, I agree. Not sure if it's MIDI or not - probably. I only sited this example as an alternative tempo.

John

[johnny-boy]

yes.  i think you're right.  i'll listen to yours right now.  i don't mind slow rags.  mine is too fast.  the thing is - i like to hear them with syncopation throughout.  here's my version of the first page with syncopation:

I can live with that tempo Pianistimo. I'd like to hear you play it without the swing though.

John

[rach n bach]

It's too fast.

It's too slow.

No folks, it's both!   

Actually, I really do appreciate all your comments.  Gets me thinking more about what I'm doing.  And yes, jih, I have tried to smooth things out since I last recorded it... and those staccato notes are now gone, but I needed to adjust the pedel on my rickety piano.   

Thanks again!

RnB

[pianistimo]

yes!  some people like it without syncopation, too.  slow, fast, syncopated, not-syncopated - lots of choices and- all ok probably.

just wondering why the words 'a mexican serenade' under the sheets provided.  did joplin write that?  or was that the publisher.  is the middle part the 'mexican guitar' adding it's romance to this serenade?

[rach n bach]

Ah, the wonderful world of interpertaion...  I have found though, that my teacher likes the way I play it, and perhaps more importantly, most of the girls.   

I think that 'a mexican serenade' was in the original by Joplin... have to check though.  It's the only one he wrote which has the "tango" bass, as opposed to the "oom-pa" which you find in Maple leaf and the like.

RnB

[pianistimo]

cool. 

[JPRitchie]

I liked your interpretation of this piece, especially the A section. It seemed to flow as Joplin indicated with his extensive ties. With one exception. In measures 10 and 12, the transition between the first two RH chords seems a bit choppy. The first chord sounds stacatto, the second too loud.
Some of the dynamics in the B section aren't those notated. The section is marked forte, transitioning to mp the second bar thereafter, with an mp mark in the bar after that so that the next bar thereafter begins forte again. After that, there are no dynamic marks until the third from the last bar of the section, which is marked mp. This is instead of the  cresendoes you use in the phrase with the 16th note ascents to the dotted quarter.
You've added a transposed repeat at the finish, along with an arpegiated final chord. Joplin notated the final chord with an emphasis mark.
All in all, it's definitely Joplin, but, to my ear, with a bit of Debussy arpegiations and tempo variations.
Best regards,
Jim Ritchie
P.S. Yes, it is marked "Mexican Serenade"
jpr

[rach n bach]

Some of the dynamics in the B section aren't those notated...
You've added a transposed repeat at the finish, along with an arpegiated final chord. Joplin notated the final chord with an emphasis mark.
All in all, it's definitely Joplin, but, to my ear, with a bit of Debussy arpegiations and tempo variations.

Thanks, I was begining to wonder if anybody noticed that I added dynamics, or the fact that I changed the ending... I thought nobody could miss it...

Thank you for your help!

RnB

[alwaystheangel]

well you arent terrible.  lol  I liked it. I am not familiar with the piece so I cannot really tell you one way or the other.  I personally enjoy a great deal of tempo change much to my teacher's chagrin But I thought it was really musical and Ilove the dynamic changes.

[rach n bach]

well you arent terrible.

Now THAT needs to go in the superlative thread...    Thanks for the other comments though, it's nice to hear that kind of stuff.

In any case, my teacher is big on not letting your listeners fall asleep.  Hence, my love for the romantic era.  As JPR noticed, I do like to modify existing dynamics, and I do tend to make a couple mistakes... but hey, I like Horowitz!  Perhaps I'll post a few older recordings and see what people think.

RnB