Lost myself -- improv 4.29.07

[m1469]

Well, I don't really know what to call it.  But here you go -- it's my fury, as unadulterated as I can get at this point.  And, you will hear it is pretty raw, but, oh the "F'n" well.  I actually carried on for about 10 minutes, but I decided to cut a lot of that out for this clip and besides, my recording device ran out of room and cut me off after 8' somfin' anyway ... LOL.

Carry on 

[opus10no2]

I feel violated 

In a good way 

It's interesting that I hear the same voice as in your gentler improv, the same basic approach, but served up with more vitriol and scary female fury 

You seem to play with sonority, chords, and those seem to be your home.

Mine is more run based, more texturally varied, maybe, but less harmonically varied like yours are. You play more with vertical harmony, like a jazz musician. Have you tried improvising in a different way? Imitating the basic style and layout of the way Mozart, Rachmaninov, Liszt wrote their music?
I like reading through a piece of music a couple times and then play around with it, improvise with the composers own vocabulary and inhabit their world.

I don't feel sorry for your piano, you probably gave her an orgasm 

[m1469]

I don't feel sorry for your piano, you probably gave her an orgasm 

It's a boy, thank you very much 

Anyway, I am going for a walk and I will respond later.  Thanks for listening and commenting .

[opus10no2]

Surely that must be illegal 

[m]

Well, I don't really know what to call it.  But here you go -- it's my fury, as unadulterated as I can get at this point. 

Well, if you always play with such a passion, then it is wonderful

[jakev2.0]

This is the best Messiaen I've ever heard.

[pianowolfi]

I listened to this and I think that it is the contrary of what the title says. You are finding yourself with trying out and enlarging your means of expression. Bravo! Well, why this should be "the best Messiaen" is not entirely clear to me It's m1469

After listening to your "dreams", to this and after having read your recent posts I just felt like commenting mainly with music and played something as a sort of answer. I called it encouragement and it's played especially for you.

[m1469]

Well, if you always play with such a passion, then it is wonderful

Well, it's always there in me somewhere, even if I don't know how to express it (sometimes it just comes out in the form of me getting extremely quiet and maybe blushing).  Lately I just try to connect with it more and more, mainly because it begs to come on out of me ... hee hee. 

Thank you very much for listening and for your comment .

I listened to this and I think that it is the contrary of what the title says. You are finding yourself with trying out and enlarging your means of expression. Bravo! Well, why this should be "the best Messiaen" is not entirely clear to me It's m1469

After listening to your "dreams", to this and after having read your recent posts I just felt like commenting mainly with music and played something as a sort of answer. I called it encouragement and it's played especially for you.

Yes, I will agree, I do feel like I am working to find myself.  So, perhaps this is actually that.  I felt pretty 'connected' anyway, so that's a good thing I guess.

Thanks very much for your 'encouragement,' it's beautiful and I of course feel very flattered that you play for me this  .

[m]

Well, it's always there in me somewhere, even if I don't know how to express it (sometimes it just comes out in the form of me getting extremely quiet and maybe blushing).  Lately I just try to connect with it more and more, mainly because it begs to come on out of me ... hee hee. 

The interesting thing, whenever we are in anger it is so much easier to express it and expression somehow becomes much more "natural".
Very often (and I find myself doing it, as well) while practicing we get into some technical details and get burried there, forgetting what we actually want to say.

This connection in fact, is in the music itself, its image, character. Just find it, identify yourself with it and everything will get on its places. Be creative, open minded, and don't afraid anything.

I've never met anybody who could establish this connection in his students, as L. Naumov.
Right on the spot he would create such unbelievable plots, where the music would become so vivid and its content so clear, that it would spark such a feeling of inspiration!
All the technical problems were on secondary place just to serve those images.
No wonder he had a line of students who were such unbelievable virtuosi.

It is impossible for me to illustrate in writing what he was doing, but I found a M. Vengerov's Masterclass, where you can see a very similar approach:

&mode=related&search=

Hopefully, you enjoy it. 

[mephisto]

It is impossible for me to illustrate in writing what he was doing, but I found a M. Vengerov's Masterclass, where you can see a very similar approach:

&mode=related&search=

Hopefully, you enjoy it. 

Very interesting!

[opus10no2]

Vengerov is always a joy to watch and hear talking, and he is also hilarious.

He is the Lang Lang of the violin world, *not* the Kissin 

[m]

He is the Lang Lang of the violin world, *not* the Kissin 

Maybe going that direction, but unlike Lang Lang he has brains, style, and integrity of artistical and musical decisions.
But let's not turn this thread into yet another LL discussion... please.

[opus10no2]

I disagree, but the point was the appeal of him, Vengerev, like Lang Lang, has an infectious way of talking about music, and playing music, that reaches out to those who wouldn't normally listen.

Kissin is a little pretentious, and will remain insular in this regard.

[opus10no2]

This is the best Messiaen I've ever heard.

I know this is an insult, but knowing what else you insult, it holds zero weight.

Like your ass  mr skinny butt 

[quantum]

m1469, ur fury is zweet 

I really like the way you use the rich sound of the bass notes in conjunction with the higher chords.

Even though you may think your creations as chaotic at the time, you really are expressing your feelings clearly.  Whatever technical inhibitions you may think you have at improvising, the important thing is your artistic ideas are vivid and quite beautiful. 

[m1469]

The interesting thing, whenever we are in anger it is so much easier to express it and expression somehow becomes much more "natural".

I have been thinking about this, and for me, I have decided that it is because after a certain point in my anger, I actually "lose myself" -- or perhaps more accurately, my self-consciousness goes away (which I tend to have plenty of  ).   Suddenly my intentions become very clear and my 'being' becomes enacted (like I am a puppet) by my intentions.  This actually happens very often when my self-consciousness goes away (for example, after maybe a couple of glasses of yummy red wine  ) -- expression in general happens much more naturally for me at these times (or perhaps that's not entirely true really.  Perhaps it's only that my expression does not ALSO contain the element of trepedation and insecurity any more).

Very often (and I find myself doing it, as well) while practicing we get into some technical details and get burried there, forgetting what we actually want to say.

This connection in fact, is in the music itself, its image, character. Just find it, identify yourself with it and everything will get on its places. Be creative, open minded, and don't afraid anything.

I've never met anybody who could establish this connection in his students, as L. Naumov.
Right on the spot he would create such unbelievable plots, where the music would become so vivid and its content so clear, that it would spark such a feeling of inspiration!
All the technical problems were on secondary place just to serve those images.
No wonder he had a line of students who were such unbelievable virtuosi.

It is impossible for me to illustrate in writing what he was doing, but I found a M. Vengerov's Masterclass, where you can see a very similar approach:

&mode=related&search=

Hopefully, you enjoy it. 

Thank you for posting this video, it was very great to watch and learn from .  I am being reminded of something that happens for me when I am learning a character/role for an Opera.  Once the scene is set in my mind and I really get a feel for what my character is doing and why, what each of her movements mean and what her expression is, what the words are relaying and what kind of subtleties may better express the meaning of the words, the technical challenges of the 'notes' tend to clear up and the music comes very much alive -- even when I am not rehearsing it with the rest of the cast, but with only myself.  I also remember everything better, too, when the whole picture is involved.  I think that this point is very pertinent for me.

The big differences are, with Opera, the roles are set, the story is set, the words are set (and, there ARE words to begin with), there is a whole scene and so on.  I mean, there is still the need for me to make it my own, but somehow I feel more permission with Opera because 'acting' is involved, and everybody knows that actors need to build a character from within their own self, too.  And, everything that music is "supposed" to portray is actually happening visually AND aurally; it's in multidimensional form and something that my entire body and spirit is involved in.

Anyway, with piano, I don't feel that same permission.  I am sometimes tempted to make up entire fantasies and stories in myself for what a work means to me (and, in general I am a story-maker -- any situation or person that I see, I have a story for them) -- in a sense, create an Opera or a scene of my very own to fit the music.  And, often I will pull on little things like this for my students in order to get a proper sense of what a passage is trying to say.  But, I get stuck somewhere in the academia of it all -- and it seems there is a whole thought out there that says we are not supposed to assume that we know this kind of thing about what the composer is saying ... yadda yadda.  But, I can see now that I need to get over that sense of holding back.  And, I realize that this thread is talking about improv, but it all relates for me, because I have been trapped somehow in my improvs by some of the same lineage of thoughts as I have been trapped with in written music.

I actually remember the first time I was listening to a recording and realized that what I loved so much about this artist's ability was the fact that he used his imagination so INCREDIBLY (and believe me, he had quite an imagination in person).  And, to be honest, I had a moment of truth in realizing that 'we' get to use our imagination (well, sign me up please).  But, somehow I thought it still was a secret, as though most people would not hear his imagination and they think only that his playing is brilliant -- so, that my imagination would need to be a secret, too.  And, this was only a couple of years ago.  To me that world is entirely unlimited and somehow makes me feel as though I can rise completely above some perspective I have entertained for awhile now -- but I am not feeling true permission to do this until just now (okay, and I still wonder if I can really technically express what my crazy imagination will say).

Anyway, I feel I very much also lack musical vocabulary -- and, there is something very specific to that.  It's that I can't seem to have certain things stick in a meaningful way for me when I try to learn them out of context.  I am, unfortunately, SO TIED to context and story that it is virtually impossible for anything (in life, even) to make sense to me without. ARGH.  I am, in general, always searching for greater context (and there seems always to be a greater context in everything) -- this is an accurate definition of my soul's/life's search.

Something that hit me in watching this video that you posted is that M. Vengerov seems to actually know what the things he is depicting are like -- in person.  He has seen these people on their bikes, he has seen the great wall of China, and okay, there are some parts that perhaps he has not seen/done (like climbing it and floating down with an umbrella).  In these cases his knowledge is directly influencing what seems like an imaginative intuition.  And, I am tempted to feel very limited in my knowledge of many things.  And, this is a vicious cycle for me between these last two paragraphs.  I have been stuck between them for years, actually. 

For me, almost any "experience" I want in life, I simply imagine it and it is as though I am there (though there are some things I do not dare to let myself imagine and have actually had to work very hard to get my imagination under control throughout my life)  In some respects I have HAD to have this be the case -- but I still feel very limited in the sense that, if I had more real-life experiences, perhaps my imagination would be better.

Now, I am all wound up and need to go DO something ... hee hee.  But, somehow all of these things are coming out of me and they are important, at least for me to put into words and to know.  My trouble is having any perspective on them.

Okay, I go now.  Thanks for ... well, all of this .

[m1469]

Even though you may think your creations as chaotic at the time, you really are expressing your feelings clearly.  Whatever technical inhibitions you may think you have at improvising, the important thing is your artistic ideas are vivid and quite beautiful. 

I want to thank you very much, specifically, for this comment here.  It is very helpful for me.  It gives me a bit more courage .  And, thanks for stopping by and listening and commenting .

[opus10no2]

It's the most powerful and important expression there is, and it's what makes us human.

I think it's perhaps the most beautiful thing about humanity, but it can also be the most frustrating.

I've said before, if life is a question without an answer, we must appreciate the beauty of the question without an end..A quest for the sake of a quest.

Personally, thats what I find to be the most beautiful thing about your character on here, you question more than you answer. You search, always, and if I have a fear for you, it's that you may one day stop enjoying the search for it's own sake.

[m1469]

? to me resembles in appearance 9 ... hee hee  (okay, and somehow they are related to each other beyond appearance for me).  I love question marks almost as much as I love the number nine... well, maybe even more.  But, it's probably some kind of tie between them actually.

I've said before, if life is a question without an answer, we must appreciate the beauty of the question without an end..A quest for the sake of a quest.

Okay, this I can finally accept.  IF, life is a question without an answer ... IF.  And, besides, in my mind, if we know that, then the question of life is somehow answered.

Personally, thats what I find to be the most beautiful thing about your character on here, you question more than you answer. You search, always, and if I have a fear for you, it's that you may one day stop enjoying the search for it's own sake.

hmmm... this is very meaningful to me 

[opus10no2]

And with relevance to what you said about letting the imaginary story dictate your expression..

I question the musical purity of it, and then I don't, because music is a product of humanity, and it expresses humanity.

The reason it may at first be questionable is because musical relations should technically be by themselves beautiful and dictate their own interpretation on a purely musical level.

Can music be good if it expresses nothing? Just being a bunch on musical relations? It's an interesting question, and one that I hesitate to answer for the simple fact that anything is *enhanced* by feeling. Anything extramusical(and it's debatable whether musical emotional feeling is an extramusical quality) only exists to enhance the overall experience, and this is why, without guilt, your approach enthralls me.

[opus10no2]

IF, life is a question without an answer ... IF.  And, besides, in my mind, if we know that, then the question of life is somehow answered.

  yes, the paradox.

I'd love to talk with you more about this kind of thing, but I don't know if here is the place 

You really enchant me 

[m1469]

And with relevance to what you said about letting the imaginary story dictate your expression..

I question the musical purity of it, and then I don't, because music is a product of humanity, and it expresses humanity.

The reason it may at first be questionable is because musical relations should technically be by themselves beautiful and dictate their own interpretation on a purely musical level.

Well, if the results of me using my imagination and creating stories for my music is me playing the bluddy *** outta the piano and a work, like it's a chocolate cake with lit candles on it on my head and in my mouth, then I give myself bluddy permission from this day on !  (ha ha ... now I am just having fun and dancing with the devil)    And besides, I just sat down at the piano and something is very different already  .

And anyway, if people don't like it, they don't have to know -- they will just think "m1469 plays brillikantly, I wonder what exercises she does when she is a child"  --- and I secretly smile with a fox smile, and I will nod and everybody can just be at bluddy peace with their bluddy selfs .

The End

[pianowolfi]

Cool

[opus10no2]

Well, that is quite an imagination you have, and along with the questioning nature of humanity, imagination is the other thing that makes humans unique, so thanks for reminding me, it's both of those qualities about you that enrapture people.

[m1469]

Well, actually, I am just deciding to sometimes be very much myself.  And, I apologize because I was laughing hysterically when I was posting that ... and then it was not funny anymore.  And anyway, I suspected that if I did that, people would think that perhaps I was just trying to show my imagination since it's everything that I just talked about, which it was different -- it's just that I felt free suddenly.  And anyway, one idea sparked another, and I am going to go on with my day now.

Right now, unfortunately, I fear I will get the giggles in very inappropriate situations (and not be able to stop) because everything about life looks extremely funny to me (okay, not EVERYTHING -- I mean, now somebody will bring something very serious up) and human existence to me is something of a joke.

But now, I will think only of the very serious elements of life and maybe my giggles will disappear completely.

[opus10no2]

There is no need to apologize for who you are.

Though I think your feelings seem more turbulent than mine, or maybe how you express them, but doesn't seem like my posts show no emotion? Yours are laced with emotion, in a good way.
It may be you have more confidence, more abandon, a combination of both, though I know they seem to have the same result to the outer world, they have very different inner consequences and causes.

[m1469]

And with relevance to what you said about letting the imaginary story dictate your expression..

I question the musical purity of it, and then I don't, because music is a product of humanity, and it expresses humanity.

So, I am just actually terribly excited (having just come from my 'beauty') because I realize that I do not actually force myself for a connection in my music.  I am already thinking of some story and connecting with the music in some way in an instant, it's just how it is for me and I actually cannot help it in fact; it's in fact always even been this way on some level, now I see clearly -- it's just I have not let myself pay attention because at some point I thought it was wrong (for some reason).  Suddenly the music is coming alive for me in ways that it just only hinted at before.

I write it here because perhaps somebody will happen by and read it, and perhaps they will feel a permission, too.

[opus10no2]

Yes, I wasn't criticising, just observing.

Vivid character in music is exciting, I like music which tells us a story, and like you said, music has no words so even listeners are left to interpret and come to their own conclusions.

It is interesting to speculate what a person, secluded from the world, locked in a room from childhood, would produce if all they had were a piano, a cd player, and music to listen to.
Would the music they produce(given they have some intelligence and creativity) be imaginative? Having no life at all to draw from in experience.

We cannot imagine anything we haven't in some way experienced.

Musical imagination (composers coming up with music in their head) is simply mixing and matching previously experienced motifs rhythms and tunes in their head.

So what we are exposed to, combined with our natural inclinations and 'taste', directly and inexorably defines what we come up with.

Besides a natural talent for music, a constant expansion of experience is required to stimulate new ideas.

[m1469]

It is interesting to speculate what a person, secluded from the world, locked in a room from childhood, would produce if all they had ...

Hey, you just described my life's person .  One of my greatest discoveries : I found my own language .


ps -- I am trying to leave the room these days, but the language is very foreign to me

*slinks*

[opus10no2]

You're escaping the room by socialising here, really.

[quantum]

m1469, sometimes we just have to let it out.  I've done many improvs that have left me with more questions than answers.  See here: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,24824.0.html