Beethoven Opus 2 no 3 -- first movement

[thalberg]

Okay here's the first  movement.  Live and unedited.  (Except that I chopped off the repeat of the exposition just to be courteous.)

[imbetter]

wow! you showed great technical control over the piece. those thirds in the very beginning, i cant get my hands to do that for sh*t. you also displayed a show of virtuosity while maintaining a great level of clarity.

keep it up!

[kd]

Great! I actually play this movement myself and I know how tricky it gets at some places. In spite of a few slips, like the nasty trill at 0:41, in the passage 2:45-3:05 (which is obviously fiendishly difficult if you don't have good technique for it, and still hard if you do), some inaccurate octave jumps at 3:25, 3:35, or a bad chord at 7:34, it is evident you have ful technical control over the piece. I am not sure if I would be able to play this at a recital with so few mistakes. (I plan to do it in a few months' time, so I will have an opportunity to test myself.)

I didn't find the initial thirds particularly challenging. The first thing to do with them is to avoid the silly fingering 42-31-42-31-42-53-42 given in many editions. 41-32-41, 51-32-51, and 51-42-51 all work much better.

Musically it is also quite interesting (the passage at 1:20-1:40 was simply great, so was 6:08-6:28), although I do disagree with your interpretation at times. For example, I think holding the pedal down for the C major bars (0:23-0:33) perhaps points out the harmony, but disrupts the clarity a lot, and also the bass chord doesn't stick out enough. I just play massively the bass chord without any pedal. Actually I think the only passages where the use of pedal should be considered are the middle section (2:45-3:05) and the chords before the final broken octaves (7:22-7:27). The same about the pedal and sforzando chords in similar places later (1:44-1:54, 5:28-5:37). What does your edition say about holding the lowest G for 1/2 of the bar in 1:54-1:57 and, analogously, the middle C in 5:37-5:40 ? I know there are differences in this place, I just think this holding the note down makes the whole thing sound better. Also, I play the Ab major chord 6:06 much louder since it is supposed to be surprise, and I use more tempo changes in the cadenza (6:31-6:53). But then, that's perhaps just my personal taste.

[thalberg]

Great! I actually play this movement myself and I know how tricky it gets at some places. In spite of a few slips, like the nasty trill at 0:41, in the passage 2:45-3:05 (which is obviously fiendishly difficult if you don't have good technique for it, and still hard if you do), some inaccurate octave jumps at 3:25, 3:35, or a bad chord at 7:34, it is evident you have ful technical control over the piece. I am not sure if I would be able to play this at a recital with so few mistakes. (I plan to do it in a few months' time, so I will have an opportunity to test myself.)

I didn't find the initial thirds particularly challenging. The first thing to do with them is to avoid the silly fingering 42-31-42-31-42-53-42 given in many editions. 41-32-41, 51-32-51, and 51-42-51 all work much better.

Musically it is also quite interesting (the passage at 1:20-1:40 was simply great, so was 6:08-6:28), although I do disagree with your interpretation at times. For example, I think holding the pedal down for the C major bars (0:23-0:33) perhaps points out the harmony, but disrupts the clarity a lot, and also the bass chord doesn't stick out enough. I just play massively the bass chord without any pedal. Actually I think the only passages where the use of pedal should be considered are the middle section (2:45-3:05) and the chords before the final broken octaves (7:22-7:27). The same about the pedal and sforzando chords in similar places later (1:44-1:54, 5:28-5:37). What does your edition say about holding the lowest G for 1/2 of the bar in 1:54-1:57 and, analogously, the middle C in 5:37-5:40 ? I know there are differences in this place, I just think this holding the note down makes the whole thing sound better. Also, I play the Ab major chord 6:06 much louder since it is supposed to be surprise, and I use more tempo changes in the cadenza (6:31-6:53). But then, that's perhaps just my personal taste.

Very accurate assessment.  That trill at :41 gave me fits.  I about punched the wall practicing it.  Most of the other places you mentioned were sort of just 'bad luck' mistakes, though this movement is hard enough almost to preclude a perfect performance in most instances.

Yeah I used the 'stupid' fingering for the thirds at the beginning.  If I had it to do over, I just would have done the thirds with both hands--I have big hands so I can reach, and the older I get the more I care about how things sound vs. what's proper.  Though the fingerings you mentioned are very good.

I'm glad you liked 1:20 to 1:40--the guy who recorded my performance actually criticized me for that exact passage, saying my rhythm was bad and unstable.  But I think if you play Beethoven like a metronome it's boring, don't you?  I tried playing it 'in rhythm' and hated it that way, so I pushed toward the top note and held it longer, then relaxed after the top note.

As for your criticisms--believe it or not, I have a friend who plays the piece EXACTLY as you describe--so you're not alone in your opinions!!  Her recording sounds pretty good.  She's won international competitions and overall gotten lots of accolades.   I'd post it but it's against the rules, and besides she'd kill me.  She doesn't even know I have it.  I got it secretly.

(She's very self-conscious.  She quit piano, too.)

[pet]

I think you played it rather well!  You seem to get faster and slower in some places, for example, the second theme you speed up...is this done on purpose?  Also, it is rather interesting that when you play the arpeggios, you use the pedal and you hold the left hand down and play it legato like, is this also done on purpose?  Any suggestions for playing the arpeggios?  I get them going up, miss them coming down...ha!

Anyway, you seem to get the thirds in the beginning pretty clear (I'm getting there), and overall great job!  Question:  Did you decide to use a lot of pedal in this piece, or did someone suggest it?  I tend to hate using a lot of pedal for classical pieces, and if I do I'm very picky and carefully mark it in the score. 

Off to listen to the other movements....

[thalberg]

I think you played it rather well!  You seem to get faster and slower in some places, for example, the second theme you speed up...is this done on purpose?  Also, it is rather interesting that when you play the arpeggios, you use the pedal and you hold the left hand down and play it legato like, is this also done on purpose?  Any suggestions for playing the arpeggios?  I get them going up, miss them coming down...ha!

Anyway, you seem to get the thirds in the beginning pretty clear (I'm getting there), and overall great job!  Question:  Did you decide to use a lot of pedal in this piece, or did someone suggest it?  I tend to hate using a lot of pedal for classical pieces, and if I do I'm very picky and carefully mark it in the score. 

Off to listen to the other movements....

I'm glad you like it!!  Which arpeggios are you talking about? 

As for the pedal, I honestly just copied the Richard Goode recording.  I really didn't get much teaching on this piece.  I think a friend may have suggested some of the pedalings.

[pet]

I'm glad you like it!! Which arpeggios are you talking about?

As for the pedal, I honestly just copied the Richard Goode recording. I really didn't get much teaching on this piece. I think a friend may have suggested some of the pedalings.

The broken C major chords on the third page, and broken F major chords on the eighth page (I think).

[thalberg]

Well, you're probably using a "pulling" finger on the arpeggios on the way up, because that's only natural.  Use a "pushing" finger on the way down and angle your hand slighly in the direction you are going.

Also....I just remembered about the pedaling, and I think I had the Schnabel edition and the pedalings came from there.