need help with speed and HT practice

[db05]

Hello.

I've made progress in the past few months (thanks for all the tips here  ), and can now play a few pieces from memory. I don't know if I can rightly call myself a beginner now. I'm a bit worried about my technique and most especially coordination, which has always been my problem.

Overall, my sight reading is weak because of the coordination problem, and I can memorize pieces quickly especially if I have a recording. So my pieces get progressively harder technically, and at some point, I'm able to memorize and play the piece in segments, HS, but not HT, especially in fast pieces. Also my regular practice piano has very heavy keys... I think this is why it is so hard to speed up. Noting this, these past few weeks I've been doing mostly memory work on this piano, and technique, speed and performance at school.

I decided to halt memorizing new pieces for now and concentrate on the technique for the current ones (All of them I've memorized HS already. I thought I wouldn't want to have more pieces memorized but can't play. Is this a good idea?):

Chopin Prelude in Db "raindrop" - because of the slow tempo, I find this the easiest here. Can play the entire piece, but with a few mistakes/ memory lapses. I'm not content with the expression. Impossible to play on my piano without hurting myself because of the dynamics (it's that heavy plus my RH5 is injured). Unfortunately, it's NOT an assigned piece; this was for a bet and I lost. Learning it for almost a month now.

Chopin Waltz in Ab "l'adieu" - THIS is my assigned piece, for 2 months now, but I haven't read the whole thing until recently. It looks easy, the speed is not a problem. No problem practicing this on my piano, except in longer segments.

Bach Bouree in Em - This tune is so familiar, that I can pick it up in case I get lost. So how come I can't play it once I use both hands? On my piano, it is too fast to play, and a pain. Still in segments.

Bach Musette in D - same as Bouree in Em

Kuhlau Sonatina in C Op. 20 - Very difficult for me to play because of the speed. Even HS is hard to play evenly. I can play the whole 1st mvt, but not very clean. The rest is in segments. 3rd mvt is especially demanding.

-

Hmmm. I don't know if you'd believe me but I've had poor motor skills since I was little, so I think it's a special case... It's beginning to dawn on me that I might not be able to play all the pieces I want to, or even just get good enough to teach. Sure, I can memorize pieces, listen to recordings and analyze scores, but if I can't play them, what's the point? You have to be at a certain level of proficiency on your instrument to teach privately or study at a music college/ conservatory. Can I reach this level? How?

[go12_3]

How about  setting yourself at a good pace and practice with focus on your pieces.  Practice with control and less speed on the fast pieces.  In time, increase your speed when your fingers have more control(not making mistakes with even rhythm).  It's easy to become frustrated in learning a piece that is suppose to be perfect in our minds.  I know, I'd like to play Chopin's Etude 10/1 in the fast tempo, but I need to be realistic about that.  First, I am learning the notes and fingering.  Play  with my RH until I feel comfortable with the fingering, etc, then I'll add the LH.  It takes time and patience to truly learn a piece.  Keep sightreading everyday and that helps a lot, especially when you are learning new pieces.  Try a variety of technique exercises by Czerny, or whatever interests you.  Then you can focus upon the actual fingering and technique for other pieces you will learn in the future.  = )   

[mike saville]

From your post it seems to me as if you are already working quite hard on your playing  . Some things just take time. We each all have different strengths and weaknesses, it may be that speed is yours. If you keep working hard, little by little the problem will start to go away. Don't be discouraged if it takes more than a few weeks or months, some issues take quite a while to overcome. Keep going through the peaks and troughs we all have and eventually you will be surpised that you ever had this problem.

So, just make sure that when you leave the piano after each practice session you are a little bit better than when you started.

[db05]

Thanks for the encouragement. 

I can't quite decide what to do next as I've only been cycling around these few pieces this week, and the past couple days was horrible! It's as if I never practiced a piece, and practicing them forever wouldn't help. I'm afraid to go to my teacher and seem as if I hadn't studied at all (this happens a lot, but sometimes it's true I hadn't studied). 

So should I:

- keep practicing these pieces to death
- practice technique in isolation (scales, Czerny, Hanon)
- pick up another (slow/ easy) piece to memorize and add to the list
- pick up the next assigned (tough) piece to memorize ahead of time
- work on sightreading
- [other]??

[db05]

BUMP.

I'm still going on with the pieces above, plus a study from Czerny Op. 599. My teacher stopped giving me new pieces, and disallowed me from participating in the recital next week. This looks bad...  I need to practice said pieces for the exams at the end of the month. And it seems I'm not doing well enough! Any tips?

[go12_3]

BUMP.

I'm still going on with the pieces above, plus a study from Czerny Op. 599. My teacher stopped giving me new pieces, and disallowed me from participating in the recital next week. This looks bad...  I need to practice said pieces for the exams at the end of the month. And it seems I'm not doing well enough! Any tips?

How come your teacher won't give  you new pieces and not allow you to participate in the recital?  What's happening, db05?   

[db05]

How come your teacher won't give  you new pieces and not allow you to participate in the recital?  What's happening, db05?   

She avoids saying anything that would discourage me, but I do think I'm in trouble. It may be that none of my pieces would make it this month, not to mention next week. 

[go12_3]

She avoids saying anything that would discourage me, but I do think I'm in trouble. It may be that none of my pieces would make it this month, not to mention next week. 

What kind of trouble, db05?  How are you practicing,  and all the other factors that come into preparation of your pieces and talk to to your instructor about your feelings in order to progress. 

[db05]

What kind of trouble, db05?  How are you practicing,  and all the other factors that come into preparation of your pieces and talk to to your instructor about your feelings in order to progress. 

For one thing, I have vertigo, and it's gotten worse so I haven't been practicing at all for a few days. I feel depressed actually and I can't wait for a doctor to sort me out.

I'll just skip this recital entirely. I've participated in all the other ones anyway. And I have a valid excuse.

[go12_3]

For one thing, I have vertigo, and it's gotten worse so I haven't been practicing at all for a few days. I feel depressed actually and I can't wait for a doctor to sort me out.

I'll just skip this recital entirely. I've participated in all the other ones anyway. And I have a valid excuse.
[/quoteYour vertigo sounds serious.  I hope that you will get the treatment you need to feel better.  And it's wise to take a break from the recital.  Best wishes to you and hope you recover quickly,  go

[db05]

Thanks, mommy go, my vertigo is almost gone. I can finally take a bath (I use tabo) without feeling sick. Haven't practiced for a week, though. Actually, I really think I have to quit. Am at my limit... I wanted to participate in the recital, but I realize that my pieces are well, in pieces. And messy, at that. Even for guitar (damn you, Sor!)...

[go12_3]

Thanks, mommy go, my vertigo is almost gone. I can finally take a bath (I use tabo) without feeling sick. Haven't practiced for a week, though. Actually, I really think I have to quit. Am at my limit... I wanted to participate in the recital, but I realize that my pieces are well, in pieces. And messy, at that. Even for guitar (damn you, Sor!)...

Indeed, you have my sentiments about your limit .....and yes, I can understand about the guitar .....glad you are feeling better though with no vertigo.  = )

[db05]

I'm having final exams at the end of this month and guitar exam in April. I don't know how I'm going to make it!! I don't hate music or piano, but it doesn't take very long when practicing that I become too frustrated and depressed to go on. I can hardly play even the pieces I've previously learned. So there's no guarantee whether I can learn my pieces in a month, or even if I can give so much effort... I need all the help I can get... I might post my playing later, as a case in point. For now....... 

For the other side of things, I'm still seeing my therapist and my doctor, but they both seem baffled as to my learning ability. I seem too intelligent to have a learning problem. And nobody seems to care about the motor skills thing, saying it will take time. But how much??  The only bright side is that my dizziness passed and I managed to play guitar in the recital yesterday.

Finals = piano, guitar, solfege, history, theory and forms
Our history is on Baroque period and Classical period. Theory is on simple melodic decorations, suspensions and dominant 7ths. Forms is on motives. Any help will be much appreciated. Please and thank you.

[jgallag]

- keep practicing these pieces to death

That depends on whether your practice makes progress or not. Sometimes we need to learn how to let a piece rest and ferment for a while, working on something new. That said, you mention problems with HT, and I've got stuff for that. Normally, I simply slow it down and make sure it feels comfortable at a manageable tempo, and then it speeds up naturally. Obviously that's not the case. This is a paraphrase of a technique I got from reading bernhard's posts on back messages:

Dropping notes:

This is only for passages that you truly cannot get Hands Together. It doesn't really work for cross-rhythms. If these are a problem, PM me as I have an article on them in Clavier Companion, but I left that at school by accident. Make sure you know both hands HS very well. Start by cycling the RH. Get it as smooth and desirable as possible. When you are happy, add the first note of the Left Hand, only the first. It may fall apart. That's okay, practice it until it's where you wanted. Then add the second note. Again, it may fall apart. That's okay. Repeat this process until you are playing the entire passage hands-together. After that, start with your Left Hand, and repeat the process with the hands switched. YOU MUST DO THAT LAST PART. Use this only for relatively small passages, as you can see it's quite time-consuming. I hope it helps.

Consistency is also a great thing. It's absolutely amazing how much improvement can be made if one practices a section every day. Not practices it to death, but makes sure, every day, that it's in top shape. The progress made this way is astounding. And, when there's no more, truly, then it's time to drop it for a while, unless, of course, you have exams, as you do, and as I do.

- practice technique in isolation (scales, Czerny, Hanon)

That depends on what you mean by technique. Scales, Czerny, and Hanon are NOT technique in themselves, they are exercises. Technique is the combination of motions used to achieve the desired sound. So, what will you be doing in these exercises? I personally use them to focus on: playing from the knuckles instead of the fingertips, avoiding collapsing knuckles (when the joint almost bends backward), guiding the motion of the fingers with the wrists, guiding the entire mechanism with the arms and elbows, playing with the tip of the thumb and not the side, and, of course, relaxing as completely as necessary.

- pick up another (slow/ easy) piece to memorize and add to the list

If you find one you like, go ahead. Just make sure it doesn't get in the way of what you HAVE to do. In the future (and I don't know how you feel about your current pieces), try to get your teacher to assign you pieces you love, or make sure you find something to love in the pieces you're assigned before practicing.

- pick up the next assigned (tough) piece to memorize ahead of time

Same as above. If you like it, sure. If you don't yet, maybe you should burn a couple of recordings onto a CD first and let your ears get used to it, and eventually come to enjoy it. Also, unless your teacher requires it, take it to the lesson UNmemorized first. This way, your teacher gets a chance to point out any wrong notes and bad habits before you commit them to memory.

- work on sightreading

Always a plus, but don't consider it work. Sightreading is for when you need a break from actual hard practicing. You pick up an anthology of music, open up to a random page, and just play it. Sightreading improves with your ability to recognize patterns in a score, and to remember key signatures, time signatures, and clefs on the first go. You can also help yourself (in measures where the notation obscures the beat) by putting in vertical lines on the beats in each measure. Note any road maps, repeat signs, da capos and del segnos. Leave out all ornamentation. My keyboarding teacher also makes us break all ties, repeating the notes so that we have a clearer understanding of where the beat is at all times. There are loads of techniques you can learn. But part of sight-reading is simply becoming a better pianist and improving your technique and musicality, so don't forget those, either.

- [other]??

Listen to piano music. If you don't have one already, build yourself a classical piano library, and pop the CD's in every once in a while. It's enjoyable, it's relaxing, and hey, maybe you'll find one you really want to play, and you can start working towards it.

As to your time question, I haven't found a solution yet. I'd like to know too, as I'm auditioning for a performance degree in seven weeks, but I can't know. And perhaps it's better that way too. I can keep practicing as if I will make the cut, and even if I'm not up to par, perhaps the effort and improvement from my last jury will show the professors that I'm willing to put in the effort. Some things come fast, others come slow. It all depends on how your body is currently constructed, and what needs to grow/change to get you into form to play your compositions. Some muscles that normally only moved slowly with strength must learn to move with speed and agility. This can take months. Always keep in mind, though, that improvement happens away from the piano. At the instrument, you do everything you can to condition your body to play better the next day, not the current. You're teaching yourself to do something, and neither the brain nor the muscles learn without having time to rest and catalogue and reinforce the material to be learned.

[db05]

jgallag, that was quite long, thanks for answering this and my other thread. Though it becomes confusing sometimes.

I've heard of dropping notes before, but never quite understood it. Usually I learn really really small sections like just 1 bar or a couple chords HT. There normally wouldn't be any notes to drop. But at a later stage, it is possible to implement. Gonna give this a try!

How about pieces you HAD memorized, and played a few times, but sometimes they fall apart for no reason, and get no better with practice? I have days like that, even for old pieces. Consistency has always baffled me; there are times I practice something a lot and show no progress, and then there are times I don't touch the instrument for days and then I find I got better. 

What I mean by technique, is that there are times I want to just isolate a (imagined? apparent?) problem with the playing mechanism, HS (not HT, and not part of my pieces). Some people use scales or Hanon or just make up their own exercise. I prefer to make things up, but some exercises are also required for school.

Actually, I prefer to memorize my pieces before taking them to my teacher. Since my teacher does not do much "correcting", but comments about the playing in general. And my sightreading is too bad for classes and gets us BOTH frustrated.  Therefore, sightreading for me is VERY HARD WORK, and most often I can't bother.

The question of time is a very important one, as I had kept different styles of practice logs over these 2 years looking for a way to organize short-term and long-term goals. Sometimes it works, but only for short-term, easy goals. I feel like a failure this time for not making it in piano for the last recital. At the very least, I want to participate in every recital and complete my exam pieces. Especially since I am "ungraded" at the moment, I want to take the exam to know my piano level.

[jgallag]

How about pieces you HAD memorized, and played a few times, but sometimes they fall apart for no reason, and get no better with practice? I have days like that, even for old pieces. Consistency has always baffled me; there are times I practice something a lot and show no progress, and then there are times I don't touch the instrument for days and then I find I got better. 

This is what I was attempting to say, though apparently I was unclear.  You must be consistent until you reach the point where day-to-day improvement no longer comes. Then you would let it rest for a little while. Sometimes, also, you must examine your practice. What are you doing with it? What do you want to accomplish? If you're just in the mindset that a piece used to be good, and now it isn't, and you want it back to where it was, that's not enough. Another reason a piece may make no progress is because you're doing something wrong. That's what the teacher is for. A teacher that doesn't correct problems and only focuses on the music is not a piano teacher, that is a music teacher. He or she would do just as well teaching any other instrument, because there are no issues being discussed that are unique to the piano. We all have problems with interpretation no matter what instrument we play. Why go see a piano teacher if that's all you want? Just find the best musician in town and get their opinion. Correcting only general problems is hardly enough when the body of repertoire for the pianist is vast and varied. Something you could do in Mozart would be unacceptable in Liszt, and certainly useless in Messiaen.

I personally don't believe you should be studying technique you are not using. The stuff I mentioned above (playing from the knuckles, guiding with the wrist, etc.) are necessary for me in ALL of my repertoire and ALL of the repertoire I will encounter in the future. These are my personal issues that need to be cleared up. For example, if you are not playing any pieces with rapid octaves, then there is no reason you should be practicing rapid octaves.

You are not a failure. As far as I can see, you haven't given up yet, no matter how close you are. It sounds to me like your teacher is avoiding being completely honest with you because he/she doesn't want to hurt your feelings. But, if your teacher is not honest with you, how can you grasp the reality of your situation?

[db05]

There are only a few piano teachers around here, so I can't change teachers soon enough. I'm actually under one of the better ones. Don't want to offend anyone.  I admit I'm not perfectly honest with my teacher, we've had our share of arguments about various things, and I gave it up. I'm bad-tempered and lazy, and sometimes I think I simply don't give it enough time. If I'm a failure then maybe I deserve to be one.

[mr music]

If I'm a failure then maybe I deserve to be one.

There are only two ways anyone can fail in music. The the first is, if you dead and when that happens well that's it for everything and the second is, if you give up.

So I just think, well I'm not dead yet