What is the softest loudness your digital piano can produce?

[xvimbi]

I was wondering what the softest loudness is that various digital pianos can produce. I have connected a Yamaha PF-500 (latest generation) to a computer and recorded the MIDI output for the loudness. I found that the softest loudness of this particular instrument was around 37 on a scale from 0 to 255.

It is said that digital pianos have problems mapping the dynamics of an acoustic, and that playing pp is often impossible. This is certainly true for this particular instrument.

How does yours fare?

Edited: I just did the analysis again, and the results are different (what a difference a software upgrade can make). However, the behavior is still not anywhere near an acoustic. Now, the PF-500 produces velocities anywhere from 0 to 127.

The problem with this digital is that the relationship between the force with which a key is depressed and the velocity readout appears to be monotonous (perhaps linear), whereas on an acoustic, it is not: no sound is generated for small forces up until a certain value, because the hammer falls back before it can reach the strings. I wish one could set this threshold value on a digital.

[DarkWind]

Exactly what does the softest loudness mean? Sounds rather, weird. Anways, the touch can vary too much within a digital piano, and sometimes the moving of the keys themselves are too loud and will drown out the piano noise itself. This is just a bit rare, however.

[Daniel_piano]

on an acoustic, it is not: no sound is generated for small forces up until a certain value, because the hammer falls back before it can reach the strings. I wish one could set this threshold value on a digital.

I've seen a digital harp at a music instruments exposition
They explained is was the first time in which the pinch of a string could result in a digital signal
So, if they used the same technology of digital harps to make digital piano they could create digital piano in which hammers can hit the strings resulting in a digital signal
In such a piano it would be possible to play so soft not to generate any sound

Daniel

[bernhard]

I've seen a digital harp at a music instruments exposition
They explained is was the first time in which the pinch of a string could result in a digital signal
So, if they used the same technology of digital harps to make digital piano they could create digital piano in which hammers can hit the strings resulting in a digital signal
In such a piano it would be possible to play so soft not to generate any sound

Daniel

It looks like they will end up building an acoustic piano

[bernhard]

I was wondering what the softest loudness is that various digital pianos can produce. I have connected a Yamaha PF-500 (latest generation) to a computer and recorded the MIDI output for the loudness. I found that the softest loudness of this particular instrument was around 37 on a scale from 0 to 255.

It is said that digital pianos have problems mapping the dynamics of an acoustic, and that playing pp is often impossible. This is certainly true for this particular instrument.

How does yours fare?

Edited: I just did the analysis again, and the results are different (what a difference a software upgrade can make). However, the behavior is still not anywhere near an acoustic. Now, the PF-500 produces velocities anywhere from 0 to 127.

The problem with this digital is that the relationship between the force with which a key is depressed and the velocity readout appears to be monotonous (perhaps linear), whereas on an acoustic, it is not: no sound is generated for small forces up until a certain value, because the hammer falls back before it can reach the strings. I wish one could set this threshold value on a digital.

Without any measurements (I cannot be bothered to do all the set up), just subjectively, I have an Yamaha CLP 970, and it has superb pp. It cannot be compared with a Steinway or Bosendorfer grand, but  in the local school there are some six or seven acoustics uprights with weird brand names like Chalen, Aeolian and the like, and none of these acoustics is a match for the 970 in terms of sound, sound control, and key control (I have played in all of them).

I do find however - as Darkwind has mentioned,  that although it can reach extremes of pianissimo easily and without problems, at these levels the key noise is a bit of a nuissance.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[RJones]

What you are refereing to is called Touch Response and can be adjusted on your keyboard. Refeer to page 81 of your PF-500 user manual. Normall the response curve is linear but the curve you are looking for is called Heavy by Yamaha.

You can also adjust the maximum volume using the Touch Sensitivy parameter which is explained on page 75.

Rodney

[xvimbi]

What you are refereing to is called Touch Response and can be adjusted on your keyboard. Refeer to page 81 of your PF-500 user manual. Normall the response curve is linear but the curve you are looking for is called Heavy by Yamaha.

You can also adjust the maximum volume using the Touch Sensitivy parameter which is explained on page 75.

Rodney

I am aware of the pre-programmed settings. I don't think any of them approximates an acoustic piano very well, so I wish I could program my own curve.

[RJones]

What you are looking for is a midi velocity curve translator. Thas has been done in hardware and has also been done in software. Take a look at:

https://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

https://www.trombettworks.com/velocity.php
https://www.musiclab.com/products/vm_info.htm

Hope this helps,

Rodney

[xvimbi]

What you are looking for is a midi velocity curve translator. Thas has been done in hardware and has also been done in software. Take a look at:

https://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

https://www.trombettworks.com/velocity.php
https://www.musiclab.com/products/vm_info.htm

Hope this helps,

Rodney

Thanks. This is enlightening. Certain sampling software (e.g. GigaStudio and KONTAKT) can do all this as well. What I really want, though, is to have the PF-500 respond appropriately in the first place. This requires modifying the velocity curve in the PF-500 itself, which is (to my knowledge) not possible. So, either I live with it, wait for a software upgrade from Yamaha (fat chance) or connect the PF-500 to a computer and have the sound generated through GigaStudio or simiar if I want to have the most realistic solution.

[Floristan]

xvimbi--

I have a Yamaha P120 which I play with headphones and have the same experience trying to play pp.  I keep the touch set to "Heavy" because all other settings make it virtually impossible to achieve pp.  Even so, the P120 simply does not respond like a well-regulated acoustic, and the amount of restraint needed to produce pp on the digital is excessive.  In fact my experience is that the digital responds oversensitively in all dynamics, so that when I play an acoustic, I have to ratchet up everything, increasing arm weight to produce tone.  If I play an acoustic with the same weight as the digital, I find that all my dynamics are now shifted down two notches, so that ff becomes mf,  mf becomes pp, and pp doesn't even produce sound!  Maybe your PF500 is better calibrated than my P120, but that's my experience.

This problem is much less noticeable when I play using the built-in speakers, but they are of such poor quality that, even with the sound turned up full, the quality of the sound produces is still a mere shadow of what you hear on the headphones.   

[RJones]

Just a thought, but couldn't you turn local off on the keyboard and then use the midi out through the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter and loop back to the midi in on the keyboard. Local control simply breaks the internal midi connection but has no effect on the external ports.

Rodney

[xvimbi]

Just a thought, but couldn't you turn local off on the keyboard and then use the midi out through the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter and loop back to the midi in on the keyboard. Local control simply breaks the internal midi connection but has no effect on the external ports.

Rodney

Interesting idea. I'll inquire with the company. Thanks!

[CeeDee]

Dear All.  As an x-guitarist I find my finger nails make a loud claking noise. Maybe I should go back to biting them. Anyway, are we talking about an aesthetic pp, very subjective, or a sample preset? (or even a need after too much to drink!) - all very different. CeeDee