working out/piano playing

[musicsdarkangel]

I have just started working out, doing many reps, to tone up my body.


Is this bad for piano playing?

[greyrune]

Good job there, wish i had the discipline to actually get myself some excercise.  I don't see how it can hurt.  If anything it'd help.  Gripping weights might well make your fingers stronger.  Plus you'll have more energy for practicing.  Just don't drop a dumbell on your fingers or anything, that could be disastrous.

[xvimbi]

This subject comes up every now and then on this forum. Some people report no adverse effects, others claim that weight lifting did hurt their pianistic abilities (for various reasons). To be fair to both sides, I would recommend to go about it in a reasonable way, don't overdo it, start very gently and build up very gradually, let your muscles rest at least a day between workouts, and be observant. Make note of any changes. Muscle can build up quite quickly. The movements required for playing piano may therefore have to be adapted slighly. Be extra careful with exercises that put a lot of stress on your fingers, wrists, elbows and shoulders, well, any joint for that matter. Again, build up very slowly and gradually. Also, don't forget cardio-vascular workouts (if you are not doing them already).

[pianonut]

xvimbi is right about the carefulness of your fingers and wrists!  i find bicycling to be the least straining (perhaps besides swimming) and it strengthens your lower back.  in my case, my back becomes very weak without it.  i start slumping after an hour.  whereas, when i am really toned up - i can practice longer without pain in my back and neck.

i suppose working out in any form is good if you have moderate goals every day and don't try to massively change overnight.  sometimes i wonder about indoor gyms because the other benefit of exercise is oxygen intake.  there's like a second part of your lungs that never gets expanded unless you do really deep breathing exercises.  it really blows you away if you haven't exercised like that in a few years, to feel the bottom part of your lungs actually taking in air.  with bicycling, i find that after the first hour, you start pacing your breathing by evenly blowing (speed related) little bits of air out over a long space of time.  then oppositely, you can take in air (maybe quicker) farther down in your lungs because the space has been opened up.  i get into a sort of meditative feel (like when you really know a piece of music) and can concentrate on how much speed i want to have, how far i want to go, and the focal points of my ride.  (i use other riders who are ahead of me, or markers that i know are certain number of miles)

exercise also increases your water consumption.  this makes you feel less 'bound up' by the starches and fats that collect.  taking in food is easy, but eliminating it can have a lot to do with the health of your digestive track.  people who exercise have less troubles with intestinal stuff (toxin build up) and are better hydrated (helping your brain, too).  it's amazing how much better your brain can work if you help it along.

[ted]

I do both resistance and aerobic training most days. Aerobic training is just as good for piano playing as it is for everything else. This might be restricted to me, but I have found it inadvisable to do resistance training where my grip involves putting pressure on nerves, in particular anywhere around the palm of the hand seems very delicate. If I catch a nerve I get peculiar sensations for a day or so afterwards, either in the two outer fingers or the thumb and inner ones, depending on which nerve I catch.

Therefore, any apparatus with pressure points and hard grips is not a good idea for me. Weights are all right as long as the grip has a big enough diameter to distribute force and not to form pressure points. Things like bullworkers and expanders with rigid grips are a bit risky. Elastic resistance tubes with large, soft grips are very good. Be careful of the Reebok type though; they tend to break at the junction of the tube and the handle. Fortunately I was wearing thick shoes at the time and it flew downwards and not upwards, which would have been dangerous. I replaced it with a figure eight Nike one and so far so good. However, since the mishap I use no positions where a break would have it flying at my face.

I just mention that in passing. It wasn't just me, I know of two others whose Reebok tubes broke.

[musicsdarkangel]

thanks a lot guys!

[Steve T]

I've also had problems with my playing after heavy weight training with free weights. I find that the muscle stiffness after lifting heavy dumbells and barbells hinders my playing for quite some time. I also find it harder to relax when playing after a heavy workout.
I, too, recommend easy progressive training. You may benefit more from circuit type training without weights. Press-ups, sit-ups, squat thrusts, star jumps, tuck jumps and a varied running, swimming and cycling routine.
Unfortunately I need to weight train for upper body and arm strength because of my job, so the playing has to suffer a bit. Since I'm certain you don't NEED to do it, I'd advise caution. Great advice (as always) from xvimbi 

[apion]

When I attempt to play the piano IMMEDIATELY after a workout, my arm muscles generally tense up in a matter of minutes.  A BAD THING.      

[pizno]

I run and swim, and feel like once I get that out of the way, I can sit down and focus on the piano.  It's a wonderful balance, if I can find time for both!  I do a lot of gardening too, and have to admit using the pitchfork and shovel can lead to strains in the hands and wrists and tendonitis in the elbows and shoulders.  I have to be very careful. 

[pianonut]

pitchfork?  are you the 'merry farmer' spoken of on that other thread.  the one with the 'hot wife.'  just kidding.

i like to garden too.  i often try to pull rocks out (bought a house - but the yard was full of rocks over which they seeded grass) that tend to be boulder size.  i have my son carry them out, but i really shouldn't try to dig so much - and my wrists get to hurting, too.

the trouble with gardening is that it is addicting (like piano).  you have choose your pleasure but water both equally.

[pizno]

I missed the merry farmer with the hot wife thread.  But since I am female I don't have a hot wife anyway.  Husband, maybe.  The pitchfork is for the huge mulch pile that was dumped in my driveway that the hot husband doesn't seem to have time to help me with. 

Yes hauling rocks is fun too!  But, as you said, got to go easy on the wrists, and always, always wear gloves.

[IanT]

I started working out in January.  Initially I had a bit of a scare when my arms swelled up to ridiculous proportions.  My hands looked like inflated rubber gloves.  Apparently this is fairly common with people who start lifting weights and is caused by the biceps muscles collapsing a vein that runs between them.  The collapsed vein means that the arm can't drain normally and so it swells up like a balloon.  Fortunately this was only temporary and the swelling went down after about 10 days. 

Since then I haven't had any problems and I find that the better muscle tone gives me much more control in my playing, particularly on large chords/octaves.

I've had much worse problems from bowling, which I did regularly for a while.  I've now got a problem with the last joint on my middle finger caused by a bowling ball with holes that were too tight.  When you release the ball it pivots around the finger as it comes off your hand, unless it's too tight, in which case it twists your finger.  I've also had worse problems from obsessional playing of Chopin etudes in my youth ;-)

So, all in all, I'd recommend it, but don't overdo it.  I have heard that weight lifting tends to grow slow-twitch muscle at the expense of fast-twitch muscle.  You probably don't want too much of that going on if you're a pianist.

Ian

[musicsdarkangel]

So, all in all, I'd recommend it, but don't overdo it.  I have heard that weight lifting tends to grow slow-twitch muscle at the expense of fast-twitch muscle.  You probably don't want too much of that going on if you're a pianist.

Ian

What does that mean?

[pianonut]

dear pizno,

sorry about the gender mistake. 

i find whatever doesn't get done (like you say) is what i do, too.  housework is a workout by itself.  why don't they notice the dishes?  or the floor?  or, for that matter - the toothpaste lid?  where does it go in 5 seconds?

music takes me away like a calgon bath, but it never lasts long enough not to hear 'mom' somewhere in the recesses.

[Enthusia]

In addition to the physical benefits, I find that lifting weights first thing in the morning helps me deal with stress better throughout the day.  I do truly feel better throughout the day on days I lift.  As for impact on piano playing...once your body becomes accustomed to the workload, I see very little harm in even heavy lifting.  BUT, you must be very cautious and observant at all times because there are many opportunities during your workout to put your hands or feet in danger.  Start slow, let your body get used to the activity, and pay attention and you will see benefits both physically and mentally.  It may even make you a better pianist in the long run...

[thalbergmad]

What does that mean?

For slow twitch muscles look at a 100m runner
For fast twitch look at a marathon runner.

I am no expert but you really want to keep high reps with low weights to avoid tendon trouble. I used to arm wrestle for England. Did not mix very well with piano playing.

[pianowelsh]

All things in moderation! Why shouldnt pianists keep as fit as their contemporaries?

[IanT]

Thalbergmad,

Do you have those definitions the right way round?  I thought that fast twitch were good for quick movements e.g. throwing things, sprinting, piano playing, etc. and slow twitch were for slower, extended things e.g. long distance running, cross-country skiing, etc.

I think you're right on the training recommendation though - high reps, low load.

Ian

[thalbergmad]

As per usual i have got it round the wrong way.

Thanks

[pizno]

Dear pianonut

I have a 17 year old and she is the worst!  She stands right in my line of sight when I am at the piano, dying to tell me something.   I wrap up the phrase I'm working on so I can hear her tell me that I have to take her to the mall in 2 days so she can get something for an event that is happening in 2 weeks.  Arghhhh.  But, the rest of my great family just ignores-yet supports- my endless practice and for that I am very grateful.  The best though (as far as piano is concerned) is when they are all away somewhere so I can really focus.  The problem is, I never want to stop.  Unless of course to tackle the pile of mulch that is STILL in the driveway.  But the garden is looking darn good.

pizno

[pianonut]

dear pizno,

glad to hear i'm not the only one having a hard time practicing ALONE.  my ten year old likes to pull the same antics.  the three year old has stopped asking for so much popcorn and drinks to go with 'caillou'  (stopping every 15 minutes).  of course, the last two days have been about my son's backaches (from heavy backpack all year) and afternoons at the chiropractor.  i guess i'll have to catch up sometime on the weekend.  monday and tuesday were good, wed., thurs were bad.  am trying not to have heart problems over getting a recital ready sometime, at some point in my life.  hopefully, soon!

piano is an addiction.

[Bouter Boogie]

I think working out isn't bad for piano playing  So keep up the good work 

[pizno]

Everybody should work out so they stay in good health.  Pianists need to be healthy too.