Microphone sample recordings

[quantum]

I'm shopping around for some better quality mics to record myself.  There are several I have in mind, and one main factor is "how they sound" and what their characteristics are.  The sales person at the audio store I visited recommended renting some of the mics to try out, before I actually decided to buy one. 

Since some people on the forum have decent audio setups I thought of starting a thread, to post short samples of what your mics sound like when recording piano.  Some possible information to include are:
mic name
mic positions
pre amp
piano

Samples don't have to be long, maybe chromatic scale, chords, arpeggios, anything that displays the pianos full range and what it sounds like on a particular mic.  Some samples of sound from particular range: bass octaves, single bass notes, tenor (around the bi-chord tri-chord split), mid range, high, and higest octave. 

If you've already posted recordings, maybe a link to them with the details of your mic. 

As there are many questions on the forum about recording, hopefully this thread will help others in consolidating some information on the very significant factor of choosing a good mic. 


Some Mics I would really like to hear:
AKG C 414
Apex 185
Apex 415
Apex 435
AT3035
Rode NT5
Studio Projects B-1
Studio Projects C-1

[Torp]

Hmmm, this could prove to be challenging.  Unfortunately, by the time any of these mics record something and it gets converted to an mp3 you may not be able to tell much difference.  I can probably help out with the B1 and C1, though it's going to take some time.

Ideally, if you really want to compare these, you'll need to record a piece while using all mics simultaneously through identical sources to identical recording media.  You'd also need to make sure that the microphones are placed in their optimal positions.

Let me offer a few thoughts on these options overall though.  If you have the money, buy yourself a matched pair of the C414s.  The C414 is a phenomenal mic and it is very versatile.  They'll set you back a few clams though, i.e. a matched pair's gonna run about $2,000.

Studio Projects B1 and C1.  They have similar sonic characteristics overall except that the C1 has a bump in the higher frequencies.  This bump makes the mic sound a little more "airy" and "open" as compared to the B1.  The B1 has a slightly "darker" and "warmer" sound.  The B1 costs $99 and the C1 is $199.  You could get a pair of each of these and spend less than $600, and have flexibility.  These are some of the best budget mics I have ever used.

I personally like the sound of the Studio Projects better than the Rode NT5s.  May just come down to personal preference though.  The NT5s, to me, are bright without having any personality.  They sound sterile to me.  Some people love them though.  I generally tend to favor a warmer, darker tone.

Additionally, depending on what type of recording you want to do of your piano, you may want to look into boundary mics (also known as Pressure Zone Mics, or PZMs).  Audio Technica, Audix, Crown, and Shure all make some.  I have heard recordings of pianos using these mics that are phenomenal.  These mics work well inside the closed lid of a grand piano and give the piano a very "intimate" feel.  I've seen them used a lot in ensemble type playing or in jazz recordings where the recording engineer didn't want the rest of the band bleeding through into the piano mics.  These range in price from about $80 - 300 a piece.

I do not have any experience with the Audio Technica 3035, or any of the Apex mics so I can't really offer you any insight on those.

My own personal philosophy with microphones is to buy mics that I will continue to use regardless of what other mics I might buy; it's all about colors and flavors so to speak.  I have a particular fondness for good sounding, cheap micrphones.  Thus I own and use Studio Projects mics frequently.  I also have a fondness for snobby, recording studio quality mics too.  That's why I also regularly use a Brauner Phantom.  The B1s and C1s gets used more often though.

The next piece of gear in line from your mic will be a mic pre.  My advice would be to spend more money on this than on a mic.  A pair of B1s running through a Great River MP-2, at a combined cost of $2,350, sounds better than a pair of Brauners running through a pair of Studio Projects VTB1s, at a combined cost of $3,350!

The list goes on and on.  Let me know what else I can help with. (assuming any of this has helped!)

Jef

[quantum]

Jef, thanks for your very informative post. 

I've been leaning towards the B1 or C1 (I'm on a budget) due to the great things I've been hearing about them.  I'm leaning towards a darker and warmer sound, and glad to hear your opinions on their differences.  This would probably lead me towards getting a pair of B1's first.  I'd be interested in hearing anything else you have to say about these mics. 

I may need to hold off at the moment on getting a really good quality pre amp, but that's something I would eventually like to add to my equipment. 

As for an input to my computer I was thinking of a Tascam US-122 (I'd post a link but the site is down at the moment). 

[Torp]

Jef, thanks for your very informative post. 

I've been leaning towards the B1 or C1 (I'm on a budget) due to the great things I've been hearing about them.  I'm leaning towards a darker and warmer sound, and glad to hear your opinions on their differences.  This would probably lead me towards getting a pair of B1's first.  I'd be interested in hearing anything else you have to say about these mics. 

I may need to hold off at the moment on getting a really good quality pre amp, but that's something I would eventually like to add to my equipment. 

As for an input to my computer I was thinking of a Tascam US-122 (I'd post a link but the site is down at the moment). 

You're welcome.  I don't think you can go wrong with a pair of B1s.  They are versatile mics that will continue to shine as you connect them to different gear.  You may eventually buy better mics, but they's always have their place.  That's something important to me; I hate to waste money.  I don't mind spending it, I just hate to spend it on 'interim' stuff that will be replaced.

I don't know much about computer interfaces because I don't record that way.  However, if I were to record that way I would look very seriously at the Pro Tools interfaces.  Not because I necessarily believe they are the best in any one category, but simply because they are the most used throughout the industry.  You can pick up the Pro Tools Mbox for around $450.  Next in line for this type of recording for me would be the MOTU gear.  Maybe mound will find this thread and chime in on its virtues.  I know he's using MOTU gear and loves it.

Not sure if you've seen these websites, but this is where I buy most of my gear:

www.sweetwater.com
www.8thstreet.com
www.mercenary.com

And, here's the studio I'm affiliated with:

www.westwingaudio.com

Jef

[joachimf]

I have one SP B1 mic running through a VTB1 pre-amp, and I love the sound. It really is a bargain for that price. Depends where you are though. In Norway the B1 costs as much as the C1 costs in the states...

The VTB-1 pre-amp might not be the best pre-amp out there, but it certainly works for me.

The soundcard I'm using is the Echo MiaMIDI by the way. If you only need two seperate inputs I can really recommend it. 

[classicarts]

Great recording, Quantum.  I was wondering if your using any audio mixer with this, and what paricular software your using with your Edirol?

[quantum]

Thanks. 

I don't use a mixer with my Edirol interface.  Just Mic > Interface > computer. 

For software, I prefer Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit) as my wave editor.  All the recordings I posted so far in the audition room were edited in Adobe Audition.  If I need to multitrack I'll use an old version of Cubase. 

I have to point out, there's a great piece of open source software called Audacity, which contains many of the features you would find in other popular wave editors.  You can download it for free.  I always like supporting open source. 

[classicarts]

wow!! These are way too expensive software for me.  But they do look very well made and powerful.  I think Edirol is giving free Sonar Le software with a purchase of a UA-25.     By the way, do you have a degree in piano, Quantum?

[wzkit]

Currently my set up is:

Mics
A pair of AKG 4000 condenser mics
A pair AKG 451
Tascam DA-P1 DAT recording
Mackie 1404 mixer

The equipment was chosen by my friend, who also happens to be my recording engineer - I'll be the first to admit I'm not an expert in this area. Some of the recordings I've posted here used only 2 AKG 4000 mics. These are the recordings with the warmer sound. Those that used all 4 mics had a brighter sound, although this might have had something to do with the piano on that particular day of recording as well.
 

[quantum]

wow!! These are way too expensive software for me.  But they do look very well made and powerful.  I think Edirol is giving free Sonar Le software with a purchase of a UA-25.     By the way, do you have a degree in piano, Quantum?

If you can get the Edirol with Sonar Le that would be a great deal (Sonar and Cubase are competitors). 

Yes, actually I do have a degree in piano.  I'm currently working on repertoire and possible thesis topics for my Masters which I hope to start in 2 years or so. 

[march05]

I don't know much about computer interfaces because I don't record that way.  However, if I were to record that way I would look very seriously at the Pro Tools interfaces. 

Jef

Jef,

Thanks for your informative posts, I'm thinking about setting up a simple home-recording system too. Could you give a list of equipments needed to record away from computers? Is it possible to transfer the takes later to a computer for editing?

[classicarts]

Some people are lucky enough to major in piano.

[didier_brest]

Some of the recordings I've posted here used only 2 AKG 4000 mics. These are the recordings with the warmer sound. Those that used all 4 mics had a brighter sound, although this might have had something to do with the piano on that particular day of recording as well.

Where do you place the mics when you are using 2 and when you are using 4 ?

Anyway your records are very fine.

[violinist]

Does anyone have comments on the Studio project TB1?  It's a  vacuum tube microphone.  I'm also looking to get a microphone.  Thanks for any advice!

[classicarts]

I have wondered about vacuum tube microphones myself.

[Torp]

Jef,

Thanks for your informative posts, I'm thinking about setting up a simple home-recording system too. Could you give a list of equipments needed to record away from computers? Is it possible to transfer the takes later to a computer for editing?

This list could be endless without some sort of limiting parameters, i.e. budget being the main limiter.  Let me know a couple of things and I'll offer whatever advice I can.

1) budget... how much can you spend?
2) what kind of sound quality are you looking for?
3) what do you want to use the recordings for?  This is related to question #2

Once you answer some of those I can start directing you towards some possibilities.  Basically though, you need a microphone and a some sort of recording medium.  From there the sky is the limit, well, actually, your bank account is the limit.

[march05]

Torp,

Ha, I know very little about recording mechanics, so I don't know what'd be a reasonable budget... How about < $1000? Is that ridiculously low??

To be frank, all I know about recording is that the sound gets picked up by a microphone. What happens after (things like pre-amp, mixer, audio interface etc) is still rather confusing to me. I think what I want is something like a walkman recorder in the old days, just press "REC" and "STOP", but with a much better sound quality, good enough for demo/audition cds. I'd also like be able to edit the takes on a computer later on.

If the costs/quality are not much different, I'd prefer a stand alone recording-system than a computer-based one. (more convenient)

Thanks for your help,
Andy

[didier_brest]

How about < $1000? Is that ridiculously low??

My recording hardware complies with this limit : 2 mics AKG C 3000 B (about 300 € each) and an external audio PC interface EDIROL FA 66 ((about 300 €). I do not take into account the PC...
At least you need a condenser mic and a pre-amp delivering the  phantom power supply required by this type of mic.  It is said phantom because it is a 48 V constant voltage delivered on the mic cable without pertubating the mic signal. You need also a digital recorder. Before using the EDIROL, I was using a Behringer 2-channel pre-amp (very cheap one...) and a TASCAM audio CD writer. I have got my EDIROL two days ago. The sound is better now. The EDIROL includes 2 pre-amps (with phantom power supply) and performs the analog-to-digical conversion. If not sold with the audio interface, some PC software for audio editing  is needed also (some tens € for the cheapest ones) for transforming the input data stream in a .wav file. 
The mics are at 1.7 m height, 2 m far from the edge of the piano, a Steingraeber 205.
You may judge the quality from the attached file: a bit of Chopin (poorly played...), followed by all the As on the clavier.

Didier

[Torp]

How about < $1000? Is that ridiculously low??

Given your stated goals, no it is not ridiculously low.  Check this out:

https://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?CatID=12&SubCatID=52&ProdID=CD-2

This is just about exactly what you described in terms of your ideal piece of gear.  Add a couple of Studio Projects B1 mics to the picture and you'd have a pretty usable, decent quality recording set up.  The Roland CD-2 prices out at about $695 and the the mics will set you back $198 for the pair.  That's basically $895.  This still leaves a $100 for mic cables and mic stands.

Another option is to search ebay for used stand-alone devices.  You can pick up a lot of good used gear if you know what your looking for.  Granted, the "knowing what you're looking for" part can take some time, but it's pretty easy to figure out with a littel dedicated research.

To didier's point, if you already have a computer you can get into this whole deal even cheaper.  There are a number of computer interface options out there that start as low as $150.  This and a couple of mics and you could be recording for around $500.

Let me know if there's anything else I can help with.

Jef

[Torp]

Here are some other threads where recording has been discussed.  These may prove useful as well.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,10062.msg103108.html#msg103108
(Recording and Assessing)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,8125.msg87454.html#msg87454
(Getting a reasonable quality recording of yourself)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7972.msg80347.html#msg80347
(Recording Piano + Vocals)


Jef

[march05]

Given your stated goals, no it is not ridiculously low.  Check this out:

https://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?CatID=12&SubCatID=52&ProdID=CD-2

That's just wonderful!  And it's portable too! Thanks very much, i think this is what i'm going to settle for. As for the mics, the local audio store recommends Shure SM81 ($300+ each). Is that a good mic for recording classical acoustic piano? Being 3x the price of a Studio Projects B1, which do you think is more value for money?

Thanks again!

[Torp]

That's just wonderful!  And it's portable too! Thanks very much, i think this is what i'm going to settle for. As for the mics, the local audio store recommends Shure SM81 ($300+ each). Is that a good mic for recording classical acoustic piano? Being 3x the price of a Studio Projects B1, which do you think is more value for money?

Thanks again!

You're welcome.  As for the Shure SM81s I can't really respond.  I've never heard them or used them.  If you listen to quantum's recordings on this site you'll get an idea of the quality available from the Studio Projects Mics.  If it were my money, I'd buy two B1s and two VTB-1s.  Total Cost will be around $400.  What you'll have is two high-quality mics and two tube mic preamps that will give you additional warmth, if you want it, and, at a minimum, different options for recording.  I personally like to have flexibility when it comes to recording.

Think about this too.  The Studio Projects are good mics AND they're 3x cheaper.  You can buy them, learn all about the recording process and have $400 extra dollars to do something else.  If you ever decide you need higher quality mics you will be able to make that decision with a point of reference.  I would be surprised, however, if the Shure SM81s were a sonically better mic than the Studio Projects.  They may be sonically different, but different is not always better.  Over time you will be able to make those decisions better as you record and listen.

[march05]

Oh alright then, thanks very much for your help! I've decided to go for a pair of Studio Project mics and the Roland CD-2 recorder. Soon I can start posting stuff here too, whee! 

[Torp]

Oh alright then, thanks very much for your help! I've decided to go for a pair of Studio Project mics and the Roland CD-2 recorder. Soon I can start posting stuff here too, whee! 

Looking forward to hearing it!

[klavier920]

This may be kinda off topic, but I have to put together this grad school and summer festival audition sampling, and I  have a mini-disk recorder. I'd like to use that instead of hiring somebody to record me professionally. Can anyone recommend a good mic that would go well with the MD? thanks

[quantum]

I too have a MD recorder, and I just use a computer mic with it. 

Sony does make a mic specifically for it.  Don't know the model number at the moment.  It has pretty decent recording capability.  There's a version for $99, and one for $130 or so.   

Note that if you want to use a higher quality condenser mic, you'd have to plug that into a preamp then the preamp into the MD. 

[superstition2]

I have no experience micing pianos, but I downloaded AIFF samples of a variety of professional mics used for vocals and acoustic guitar, and the C1 didn't sound good. It was very thin with a much too strong high end. The Neumann and AKG mics sounded better. The Neumanns (u67 and u87) were more natural and the AKG (414) seemed to be crisper, although its high range was harsh when high notes were played on the guitar. Maybe the C1 is a good deal in such a low price range, but it definitely doesn't hold a candle to real pro mics, from what I heard. The Neumann mics are probably not ideal for piano, since they're designed for vocals and don't have a flat frequency response. However, they don't have the thin/shrill sound of the C1.

Recording forums tend to stress the importance of room acoustics and mic placement the most. And, some even make a big fuss over the pre-amp. I've heard Grace makes a good pre-amp.

[steve jones]

You can get the C414's for decent money these days, and they rank high on the list imo. Match these up with some decent input channels and you're in business! If it were me, Id be looking closely at something like the Apogge Trak2. Great pre's and convertors in the one box.