Rachmanioff Fingerings

[RiskyP]

I am far from playing Rachmaninoff, but I love his music and I checked out the sheet music for his Etudes Tableaux Op. 33, No. 7 - one of my favorites. How do you think the first 6 measures should be fingered? It seems like it should be divided between the left hand and the right, don't you think? But how?

[debussy_lover]

RiskyP,

Rachmaninov was a briliiant pianist, and wrote very naturally for the instrument.  All the information you need to play his music is contained in the score, provided of course that you have a reputable edition.  

However, in this particular etude, which I have played many times, i would suggest a slight change from what Rachmaninov indicated.  In bar three, play the melody only with the right hand, instead of right left right left as is written.  Then play all the notes that are in the lower staff with the left hand, ignoring the right hand indication on the second group of 16ths.  Every time the accompanying 16ths cross into the upper staff (still in bar 3), play them then with the right hand, all the while holding onto the melody notes for a good legato.

Finally, keep the right hand in a very high position, so that the left may cross under as needed.

All the best.

[RiskyP]

So is that why his 16th notes go up and down into and out of the treble and bass clefs - he wants you to play the treble clef part with the right hand and the bass clef part with the left? I am a beginner at this and I hvae never seen music as complex as this, so pardon my ignorance.

I see what you are saying though, it does feel very natural. Almost as if your hands are always in the correct position. It feels good.

[debussy_lover]

That's correct.  The notation in bar 3 just serves to show which part is melody and which part is accompaniment.  You should play everything in the upper staff with the right hand, and the lower staff with the left.  

[RiskyP]

I apologize, I am a bit slow when it comes to piano... how do you determine which is melody and which is accompaniment - exactly which notation were you refering to?!

[RiskyP]

Furthermore, do you pedal in this piece, or do you just play it very legato?

[debussy_lover]

Yes, the pedal should be used a great deal.  The general rule is that you should change the pedal when you hear that you are getting an ugly combination of harmonies.  Exact pedalling choices vary from piano to piano and person to person.

In this etude you might consider using one pedal for the first two bars, and then pedalling on each quater beat in bar three.  Then pedal on the first and third beats in bar four and change the pedal only once at the beginning of bar five.  

If you study the score, do you see why this pedalling scheme might be a good idea?  What other alternatives could there be?

[RiskyP]

Thank you for the help once again. The pedaling you recommended is good, except, in the fourth measure (bar?) there is a part in the left hand where the following leads to a cool, but dissonant sound:
[left hand] Bb....A,G,F#,G...

I listened to Ashkenazy play it and it sounds very coherent the way he plays it (all of the notes are clearly heard) but when I keep the pedal depressed the entire time, the resulting sound is dissonant and not all the notes can be heard, just a jumble - unless I play them very loudly, but of course I shouldn't do this. It could just be the piano, what do you think?

As for your question about other alternatives; after studying the score I can't find any better alternative for the first three measures.  

This is such a wonderful piece.

[debussy_lover]

I think that the (excessive) blurring you are hearing is a result of your piano or the acoustics of your room.  The sound on a recording is not quite like what we hear from a piano in real life.  Because a piano is typically miked very closely in a studio session, often times the music will tend to sound very articulated, and pedaling will create less of an audible blur.  

Personally, I would hold the pedal all the way through the left hand sixteenths in bar four.  However, if you're getting a really ugly sound that you don't like, then you will have to reconsider and maybe try a different pedalling approach.  

It is always important to get inspiration from recordings!  It is also very important to remember that recordings are not totally representative of how a piano really sounds.  

Therefore, we should not aim to reproduce the sound of a CD performance in our own playing.  Rather, always be sensitive to the effects you are achieving as you play.  Use your personal taste to guide you to make the right interpretive and technical choices.

[RiskyP]

Thank you debussy_lover, I am really learning a lot from this discussion.

I agree, pianos in recordings sound much less sustaining and blurry than in real life. This was also causing me trouble for a while (in another post) with the first movement of Beethoven's Moonlight sonata. Also, my sense of dynamics is also screwed up because of this. For instance when I try to play pianissimo, sometimes the hammers don't even hit the strings, because I am trying to achieve the kind of pianissimo that I heard in the recording. Maybe I am just not refined enough to play pianissomo yet, or maybe pianissimo is not that very soft as I tought?