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Topic: What digital should I get?  (Read 4005 times)

Offline abstractentity

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What digital should I get?
on: July 07, 2005, 05:10:51 AM
I'm going to be going into a situation  where I'll have access to an acoustic for at most about an hour or so during t he weekdays and then several hours during weekends. 

I'm trying to find a digital piano that has action similar to acoustics and will fit into my dorm room.

All of the Yamaha GranTouch series seems to big, so I'm looking into the Kawai MP9500 (if I can find it, why is it discontinued in the US and Canada?).

I'm willing to pay for around the 2500-3000 range...so are there any reasons why I should or should not get the Kawai and what other piano do you recomend?



Offline xvimbi

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #1 on: July 07, 2005, 11:45:52 AM
The Kawaii has a very nice action in that it feels good (it's made of wood). This biggest issue I have with that action is the excessive key wobble and the wide gaps between keys (the two things are probably related). When it comes to digital pianos, I much prefer the Yamaha action. Some people are perfectly fine wit the key wobble issue of the MP9500, but you need to make sure that you are too before you buy. If you look at Yamaha, you should check out models with the GH and models with the GH3 action. Within the different series, the action is the same (either GH or GH3 or the 'Natural Keyboard'); the models only differ in terms of bells and whistles. You need to decide what bells and whistles you want.

In any case, check out every contender in person for quite some time before you buy. It's not so much the money you spend, but the countless hours you'll be using the digital that makes it important to choose the one that you really like.

Offline thalberg

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #2 on: July 07, 2005, 02:15:31 PM
Why do you say the Yamahas seem too big?  If you like them, buy one.  For six years in grad school, I lived in a TINY little apartment, and I had a 5-foot grand in there.  Basically, I just gave up having furniture, so if I wanted to  be with my friends, I just had to go to their place or go out.  I never regretted it.  If you really like a certain instrument, don't let size stop you--you'll find a way to work it out.

Offline jr11

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #3 on: July 07, 2005, 05:21:58 PM
The size concerns to buying a digital over an accoustic tend to be more percieved than actual.

Space wise, the main concern with any keyboard is it's width. Well, both accoustics and digitals are about the same... 88 keys. The spinet-sized pianos have about 8 inches more depth, if you can live with that. They go up a little higher against the wall, but wall space is often not of great concern. A small piano weighs about 200kg... quite easy for a couple big guys to move in a small pickup... there is no mystery to it... I have moved many such pianos.

A new piano like this is certainly within your price range, and will have a far better action and sound than any digital. The big advantage to a digital in your situation is the ability to use headphones.


Offline abstractentity

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #4 on: July 07, 2005, 07:08:27 PM
Space isn't my only problem, but the need for headphones. 

What is the difference between the various Yamaha actions?

Offline dave santino

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #5 on: July 09, 2005, 09:35:10 PM
Personally, I'd go for the Kurzweil 2600. I've got one, along with the full processor, and its the best. Just my 2c tho.
"My advice to aspiring musicians? Wear sunblock and use a condom!" - Steve Vai

Offline pianohopper

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #6 on: July 09, 2005, 10:15:09 PM
The Clavinova series has a nice acoustic feel.
"Today's dog in the alley is tomorrow's moo goo gai pan."  ~ Chinese proverb

Offline rlefebvr

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #7 on: July 10, 2005, 05:13:08 PM
for that kind of money, a high end Clavinova would be my choice.
CLP 150 and up are really amazing. Try one and see.

A lot of people here  like the 120, but I find it subpar for my taste.
Ron Lefebvre

 Ron Lefebvre © Copyright. Any reproduction of all or part of this post is sheer stupidity.

Offline hahad

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #8 on: July 13, 2005, 09:31:35 PM
I'm going to be going into a situation  where I'll have access to an acoustic for at most about an hour or so during t he weekdays and then several hours during weekends. 

I'm trying to find a digital piano that has action similar to acoustics and will fit into my dorm room.

All of the Yamaha GranTouch series seems to big, so I'm looking into the Kawai MP9500 (if I can find it, why is it discontinued in the US and Canada?).

I'm willing to pay for around the 2500-3000 range...so are there any reasons why I should or should not get the Kawai and what other piano do you recomend?

Check out the discussion on this thread:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,9426.msg105973.html#msg105973

I think it will help in deciding whether you should spend the extra money on a Clavinova or go for a piano in the P series.

Offline sklebil

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #9 on: July 14, 2005, 05:59:33 PM
I have the Casio Privia PX 300 with 32notes plyphony(sufficient) and an in-built metronome, and I am very happy with it. It has very nicely weighted keys, feels like a real acoustic piano. I have a chance to play a baby-grand Yamaha from time to time, and at home I have a Weinbach (offshoot of Petrof for export in the 1980') upright, so I can comare. The keys on the Privia ARE of course lighter, but not much. I have played uprights with lighter keys than that. So really feels very, very nice. The sound is great. Has 2 different grand-piano sounds, both nice, and some other sounds like harpsichord (not very realistic I think but i don't have much experience with harpsichords :) ), acoustic guitar, electric piano, strings, voice.... plenty of crap like that. It has 2 headphone jacks - very useful, line in - you can play along with Horowitz if you like  ;D and if you have CD  ;).
The only thing that really, really sucks, is the pedal. However, you can buy a better one from Casio.  Nevertheless, I suspect that the pedal only has ON - OFF states, and nothing in between (I am not quite sure whether it is not in my case because of the crappy plastic pedal which allows only little control, but I am afraid not). That may be the only drawback. You can get this piano for some 700 euros in germany, and it only weights 12.5 kg! Overall, I give 9.8stars out of 10 because of the pedal issue...
I never manage to eat a whole pizza. Sigh.

Offline gilad

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #10 on: July 14, 2005, 10:13:16 PM
i recently spoiled myself and bought a clavinova 150. it was pain in the a** leading up to it, because obviously it's expesive, but i'm so happy with it. i have two upirghts in two venues heres but cant use them all the time because of noise constraints. so i bought this clavinova.
At first i felt as though i'd hugely wasted my money because well, it costs as much as a new upright. but within a week of having it i've gained so much playing time, anytime i like. i practice at 4 a.m if i'm restless etc on the headphones. the action is great, you can choose btween 4 touch settings. i now find it easier to play on the keys of my uprights and i'm really gald i bought my CLP. only problem is i practice at low volumes and the uprights sound is excrutiating loud now! but that'll probably pass if i sit down on them for more than half an hour.
i'd recommend getting one, my teacher is knowlegable and advised me to get mine, i was scepticle at first but no longer.
do your research and go for high polyphony, dynamic touch touch etc. in my opinion if you're buying something for so much you may as well get one thats quality and you wont tire of.
do your research and take your time, also see if you can find one second hand, they sell for half the price of a new one.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush,

Offline artificial_soul

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #11 on: July 17, 2005, 12:05:53 PM
Hi! :)

If you're looking for the right digital piano let me tell you then you have to find out for yourself which one is the best. I'm not saying this because I don't wanna help you, because I really do. I will give you some info and tips based from my own experiences. But everyone has an individual perception about music, so each person will give you different advisery and recommendations, which results in you don't know what to do with it. What other people think is great doesn't have to be great for you as well.

I'm affraid it's not wise to rely on the advisery of salesmen. In many cases they know almost nothing about acoustic pianos so they cannot say the digital piano has a realistic sound or touch. Also it occurs sometimes salesmen give you false information to persuade you buying a model they want to get rid off.

First let me tell you which model you shouldn't buy: any model from Technics. Technics decided to stop producing digital pianos. You can still buy digital pianos from Technics, but warrantees are worthless; suppose when something is wrong it cannot be repaired because the factory is closed.

Another thing. It is claimed very often that modern digital pianos have a similar touch as grand pianos. Indeed the touch of digital pianos is much more comfortable than the keyboard of the usual synthesizers. But it's really not similar to grand pianos. For example it's too easy to control the dynamics of your touch (piano, mezzoforte, forte, etc.) on the keyboard. Digital pianos aren't suitable to practice on when you finally want to perform on a real grand piano or a normal pianino.

However some models have a better keyboard than others. Kawai, Yamaha and Roland produce the keyboards in Asia, and those keyboards are heavier and more dynamic. Some people don't like a heavy keyboard, but in my opinion a heavy keyboard plays more comfortable. It is said Kawai has the best keyboard - real wooden keys - but unfortunately the sounds of Kawai are not very great.

The most popular marks are Yamaha and Roland. I have the Roland RD-700sx. I've chosen for Roland because some people told me Roland instruments match better with acoustic instruments for performances of bands than Yamaha. Indeed I must say the Roland sounds are more full and massive than the sounds of Yamaha. It's a matter of taste which kind of sounds you prefer. A lot of people prefer Yamaha to Roland.

The Roland RD-700sx is 128 polyphonics, which is great because high polyphonics is very important, especially when you use the damper pedal while playing. The instrument contains line-out connections, XLR connections and one headphone connection. A damper pedal is included, but you can also buy a soft pedal and a sostenuto pedal. There isn't a built-in sequencer for recordings, however you can still capture your plays by using your computer. You can connect the RD-700sx to your computer with a USB-cable, so a MIDI-interface isn't required. (By the way, you can download freeware MIDI-sequencing software for your recordings, like Anvil Studio.) The instrument doesn't have internal speakers, but I think it's better to buy separate speakers of higher quality.

I'm very happy with the keyboard. I've mentioned before the keyboard of a digital piano isn't similar to the one of an acoustic piano, and that counts also for this one. Still it plays very comfortably and dynamicly and the heaviness can be compared with the one of an acoustic piano. Also the keyboard is suitable for other sounds like organs and ensembles, so that makes the RD-700sx a perfect masterkeyboard as well. I have to mention one thing; the keyboard is quite noisy when you play on it, and that can be annoying for other people.

The first piano sound - Superior Grand Piano - is very realistic. It sounds a bit dusky, so that makes it suitable for classical piano plays. The sound is contructed by many samples: each note is sampled on several dynamics (when you press the key softly you'll hear another sound sample than when you press the key harder). Compared to the Superior Grand Piano the other piano sounds are not very great, so I hardly use them. But one good piano sound is sufficient for me.

Still I have one comment about the Superior Grand Piano. It sounds a bit blurry. But maybe that's because it's a digital piano. Acoustic pianos always sound better of course. I think it's really difficult to sample a piano, because it's such a complex instrument with many possibilities. It's not just a matter of capturing the sound of every note.

The electric piano sounds are really great and expressive. The Rhodes pianos sound warm and spherical. The FM-synthese pianos are bright, but definitely not cold or emotionless. A lot of electric pianos will sound familiar to you. My favourite one sounds exactly the same as the electric piano in Riders Of The Storm from The Doors.

The Roland RD-700sx contains a virtual Hammond organ, called the Tone Wheel Mode. By real organs you can change the sound by pulling in or out the drawbars to control the supply of air in the pipes. That function is simulated by the RD-700sx. There are 8 virtual drawbars which can be controlled with the edit sliders. Also you can add percussion, and there are several percussion types.

There are other interesting sounds: clavis, celesta, marimba (though in my opinion you have to adapt that one by using the edit sliders to make it sound darker and warmer), string ensembles (there are a lot of those, from chamber ensembles to orchestra ensembles), synth pads, harp (that one is very expressive!), flute, oboe, saxophones, etc. And last but not least there are a lot of realistic drum sounds, and many of them are layered in 2 or more samples.

Unfortunately not all sounds are great. All the choir sounds are a bit poor. But it doesn't matter for me because I prefer to listen to real vocals. Also the RD-700sx contains that horrible trance sound! The vibraphone is really bad. The harpsichords are quite allright, but would definitely sound better if they contained more samples. Actually that's a bit odd, because Roland produces digital harpsichords.

If you want you can expand the sound library by installing a SRX Wave Expansion board. Those boards are quite expensive, but not as expensive as a new electronic instrument. I really hope Roland will release a board with better and more detailed harpsichord sounds. If Roland sells digital harpsichords than those must have a good sound quality.

The Roland RD-700sx has many functions to edit the sounds. With the edit sliders you can change the cutoff-frequency, the resonance, the attack time and the release time. Also you can change the sound by adding an effect. There's a choice between 128 effects, including reverb, chorus, delay, tremolo (usefull for electric pianos), rotary (usefull for organs), distortion, and a whole lot of others. The quality of the effects is absolutely very good. A reverb for example sounds very detailed and pure. I can't image one would complain about the quality of the effects.

The Roland RD-700sx has a lot of useful functions. But there are also functions and features which are really not necessary. (1) Next to the RD-sounds there are 256 sounds and 9 drumbanks which are supposed to be used for playing general MIDI-files. Those sounds are of lower quality than the other RD-sounds, so I don't use them. I don't use my digital piano for playing General MIDI-files, but suppose if I want to I'll first adapt those MIDI-files so the RD-sounds are used instead of the General MIDI sounds. (2) A built-in metronome is useful when I want to practice playing in the measure. But 128 different programmed rhythms are not necessary in my opinion. (3) There's also an Arpeggio-function. You probably know already an arpeggio is a broken chord. But in relation to the RD-700sx it means programmed accomodation. So combined with the rhythms you can use the instrument as a keyboard. But I haven't bought it for that.

But you'll find unnecessary functions in other digital pianos too, so I'll overlook that. I'm quite satisfied with the RD-700sx. I've got an acoustic pianino as well - a Schimmel with a beautiful characteristic sound - and I use that one for practicing my lessons. But for recordings I use my digital piano. When I listen back my recordings I can hardly notice it's from a digital piano. It sounds definitely better than for example the digital pianos of Korg.

Offline artificial_soul

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Re: What digital should I get?
Reply #12 on: July 17, 2005, 12:57:11 PM
Once I've recorded something from the Roland RD-700sx. I've used the Superior Grand Piano sound. It's something extremely simple composed by myself, just some chords. It's nothing impressive, though my piano teacher said she liked it because it's full of emotion. (I was really surprised to hear that from someone who can play difficult plays of Chopin.)

If you would like to listen because you're curious about the sound you can download it from this link:

https://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=26XYRV98IFUPQ3QAMQ84ER1QJC

It stays active for a week.

To record the sound I've connected the instrument to my recording-interface by using the XLR-connections. The sound is captured with 24bit (32bit floating point actually), but for the mp3 you can download I've converted it to 16bit. For the rest I've done absolutely nothing to improve the sound quality. This is what you hear when it is played on the RD-700sx. I even didn't add reverb.
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