Sonatine (ravel)

[qwerty quaver]

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[Bouter Boogie]

Hey! That's a good question for me too! I'm going to play this sonatine in a couple of months, maybe weeks.. I'll let you know the fingering if I started this piece if someone else hasn't answer your question yet, okay?

[Bouter Boogie]

I saw another topic about this sonatine a few seconds ago, maybe you should check that one too..

[qwerty quaver]

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[gkatele]

Speaking of Sonatine, my teacher (yesterday) recommended that I learn this. Does anyone know of a public domain edition of this for download?


Thanks,


George

[joachimf]

Here's some threads might worth to check out  They might not answer your question completely, but they have a lot of interesting material at least =)

Ravel's Sonatine, 3rd mvmt - some detailed questions
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7209.0.html

Tips on how to practice Ravels sonatine?
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4835.0.html

Ravel's Sonatine
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5460.0.html

Fingering in Ravel's Sonatine
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,10368.msg106138.html#msg106138

I've found one way that feel comfortable for me to play the first three bars though:
RH: 5121 3121  121  121 21 31 4121 51 41 5121 3121 512
LH: 1+2 (upper to lower), 1+4 2+5-4 1+3s5* 1+4-3 1+2 1+4 1+2
*(switch to 5 or go directly if you're able to)

But wether the LH should stay "inside" the right or they should switch, I'm still unsure. (see "Fingering in Ravel's Sonatine above")

Good luck on this beautiful piece! I've just started the 3rd mov. I can't stop loving this piece...

Joachim

[qwerty quaver]

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[Bouter Boogie]

Hi!

I started this sonatine a week ago, it's such a lovely piece! I already started some sight reading of the 2nd movement.

I also heard the 3rd movement is quite hard, also because it has to be played so fast. Is that true and what's your opinion about the 3rd movement (in general)?

[joachimf]

It might be more difficult to get the melody to sound properly in the 3rd movement....

Technically it sure looks more difficult than the first two movements, but with good fingerings you can probably play it (if you can play the first two). But it might take up a lot more practice time than the first two movements, so If I were you I would start looking at it. =)
(I did this completely wrong myself. Worked my way through the 1st, 2nd, and then started on the third.. which isn't the ideal way if you have limited time.. me stupid )

Oh well, the fingerings for the third has already been slightly discussed. (see post above), but try to make your own before looking at the other's. Maybe you find that your own way is more comfortable with you. I didn't, but you never know:P

Anyway, it shouldn't be that hard to get up to speed. That of course depends on your level, but I find it at least easier to sight-read than the two first movements. (no, not in proper speed  )

Anyway, good luck!
I'm not finished with it yet myself...
If I ever manage to play it good enough, I'll post a recording 
It would be nice if you(and others) could too, (when you are finished that is, no pressure  ) so that we could compare each others recordings+++ I think that could be nice...

Bye for now! =)

Best regards,
Joachim

Edit: You will probably figure it out yourself, but the third movement, is VERY fun to play
And btw, this goes for all three movements, I don't know if you are or not, but just a general tip that I've heard from others as well: Be loose in your wrist 

[Bouter Boogie]

I planned the sight-read of the 3rd movement for today It’s just the speed that worries me, you know.. But anyway, I’ll take care of that later

I already thought so that the 3rd movement would be a lot more difficult than the 1st and 2nd movement.. So which movement can you call your favourite one? I really love to play the 2nd movement, you know.. It’s such a lovely piece, this whole sonatine!

Great idea to post some recordings on PF! I really want to hear how you guys play this piece! I’ll post mine over a year then, haha, I’m not finished at all with this sonatine

So how long have you been playing this piece? As for me, I guess a week now and I’ll start practicing the 3rd movement this week..

Anyway, I bet you guys have got recordings of this sonatine, too (played by other pianists)? I’ve got one played by Philippe Entremont, it’s a very good recording! I love to hear him playing Ravel (and also Debussy)..

[joachimf]

All three movements are really beautiful.. But at the moment the second is my favourite as well... It is just so.. beautiful

I have been playing/practising this piece for a fairly long time... But I have been on holiday much of the time, so I haven't been able to practice that much.. But I'm now back practising more intense than ever! 

I only have this piece played by Pascal Rogè. He plays it very good, he manages to make the voices really sing. But I'd love to hear other versions... I think I'm going to look for the recording of Entremont. Sadly, this is one of the few Ravel piano pieces my teacher didn't record... 

I'm not at all finished with the third movement, nor the first two, musically speaking (and when I present it to my teacher I'll probably end up being even less finished than I thought I was.. :p )

Well, I'm back to practising! =)

[Bouter Boogie]

*YaY*, I finished the sight-reading of the 3rd movement Have to work on the speed now..

[al]

I just started learning this piece - can anyone tell me which edition is the best?  I would normally buy Durand (UMP), but it's the most expensive, and there's an 'Urtext' Peters edition edited by Nichols which is probably good.  Any opinions?

[joachimf]

I have the Durand edition and I'm very satisfied with it. 
I haven't seen any other editions though. But I'm sure there'll be more replies 

[Bouter Boogie]

I think I've got the Phillipp edition, but I'm not very sure..

[al]

I bought the Peters edtion (it was recommended by the Associated Board).  If anyone's interested I'll post my thoughts on it when it arrives.

[Bouter Boogie]

I'm interested!

[al]

Well the Peters edition arrived today, and it's very good.  It has some useful performance notes, particularly regarding the tempi that Ravel wished the movements to be played at.  The music itself contains quite a few editorial suggestions (accents, dynamics etc.) which are based on how Ravel and Fevrier taught this piece. The suggestions are marked in brackets clearly.  The music also includes una and tre corde directions based on Ravel's piano roll recordings.  All the actual notes appear to be the same as the Durand edition I played from.

Anyway, it's a good edition and it's probably worth buying as it seems pretty authoratitve (lots of notes on sources etc.).  It's also quite cheap.

[Jacey1973]

All three movements are really beautiful.. But at the moment the second is my favourite as well... It is just so.. beautiful

I have been playing/practising this piece for a fairly long time... But I have been on holiday much of the time, so I haven't been able to practice that much.. But I'm now back practising more intense than ever! 

I only have this piece played by Pascal Rogè. He plays it very good, he manages to make the voices really sing. But I'd love to hear other versions... I think I'm going to look for the recording of Entremont. Sadly, this is one of the few Ravel piano pieces my teacher didn't record... 

I'm not at all finished with the third movement, nor the first two, musically speaking (and when I present it to my teacher I'll probably end up being even less finished than I thought I was.. :p )

Well, I'm back to practising! =)

I just adore the sonatine too, i'm determined to learn it next year as soon as i've tackled my current pieces. What level would you say it is? I've heard it is ABRSM diploma level (or perhaps the next level up?).

I adore the first movement. The sonatine for me, is one of those pieces that makes you feel you are in a scene - in the way it effects all the senses - particulary sight, touch and smell. It makes me feel i'm in Paris, walking past street cafes on a summers evening - with a warm breeze, it evokes warm colours - like oranges and reds....lol  . I guess alot of music in the "impressionistic"  style is associated with images/colours because of its connection with art/paintings of the time.

[lostinidlewonder]

I was wondering if anybody had some fingering for the first two lines of Ravel's Sonatine (1902) and any tips for how to practice it.

These are the fingers I would use, brackets are chords:

Bar 1:
RH:   5    121    5      121      121
LH: (51)          (51)           1

Bar 2:
RH:        121    4    1   5      4    121   4    1  5   1
LH:   1           (51)      4    (51)        (41)      3

Bar 3:
RH:  5     121   4     121    5     12   start again
LH: (31)         (51)          (31)

I think it is important to understand when the hands have to lift and drop back to the keyboard.

Consider the melody.
Bar 1: [F#] [C#]   Bar 2: C# [D] E F#  Bar 3: [G#] E G#  start again [F#] Bar 4: C# etc etc

We will be dropping simultaneously both our hands on the notes bracketed.

Take note that the Lh 1 is above the Rh 1 but under the Rh 2 in these red colored sections. But in the blue colored sections we have LH 1 UNDER the RH 1 but the Lh 2 above the Rh thumb. This form is important to consider.

Bar 1: [F#] [C#]   Bar 2: C# [D] E F#  Bar 3: [G#] E G#   start again [F#] Bar 4: C# etc etc

As you can see and probably feel if you play it, when the hands play the D major chord in the 2nd Bar the position of the thumbs swap over.

[Bouter Boogie]

Anyone already finished this piece? Maybe we should post some recordings of it I'm almost finished.. I guess.. Still have to bring it to piano lesson, though

[joachimf]

I just adore the sonatine too, i'm determined to learn it next year as soon as i've tackled my current pieces. What level would you say it is? I've heard it is ABRSM diploma level (or perhaps the next level up?).

I adore the first movement. The sonatine for me, is one of those pieces that makes you feel you are in a scene - in the way it effects all the senses - particulary sight, touch and smell. It makes me feel i'm in Paris, walking past street cafes on a summers evening - with a warm breeze, it evokes warm colours - like oranges and reds....lol . I guess alot of music in the "impressionistic" style is associated with images/colours because of its connection with art/paintings of the time.

I couldn't agree more But when it comes to ABRSM... I don't really care:P We don't use that system in Norway (as far as I know) and I think difficulties are so personal a grade-system won't really tell you anything more than a very basic outline. I've played pieces that are supposed to be grade 6 that I've found more difficult than grade 8 pieces... explain that

Anyway, yes! We want recordings! 
I still have some work to do on the piece, but anyone that's finished, or played the piece before, please post a recording!   

Best regards,
Joachim

[Bouter Boogie]

So has anyone already finished this sonatine? I memorized the 1st movement this week and I'll start the 2nd movement as soon as I can! I'm still enjoying it a lot, it's gorgeous How about you guys who are playing it too?

- BB

[joachimf]

I've memorized the 1st and 2nd movement, and halfway through the third. But there still is a lot of work left, as my teacher is a perfectionist and everytime I think it's good, he points out serious flaws I didn't hear before he pointed them out:P But that's just good I guess. He makes me hear things in my playing that help other pieces as well... So I'm not ready to post any recordings at least =) Though I'll be glad to share my experiences and hear what you others have to say about it 

[Bouter Boogie]

So how was it to memorize the 2nd movement compared with memorizing the 1st one? Personally I think it wasn’t that hard to memorize the 1st movement.

- BB

[joachimf]

Actually I didn't really do the memorizing as a seperate task, it just came by itself while working on the piece. But I think the 2nd movement is more difficult to memorize(but not that much); even though I know it pretty well by heart know, some parts are less "secure" than others. That is, in some parts I'm in between knowing it by heart and by hand-memory, so if I get a blackout, that's the places I will fail. The areas less secure to me are bars 5-11 and 57-63. But in "less secure" they're actually pretty secure, but not as secure as the rest

Oh well, my teacher says that you don't really know the piece till you can play the left hand or right hand alone by memory. (and preferably start anywhere in the piece without the sheet notes)

[Bouter Boogie]

Actually I didn't really do the memorizing as a seperate task, it just came by itself while working on the piece. But I think the 2nd movement is more difficult to memorize(but not that much); even though I know it pretty well by heart know, some parts are less "secure" than others. That is, in some parts I'm in between knowing it by heart and by hand-memory, so if I get a blackout, that's the places I will fail. The areas less secure to me are bars 5-11 and 57-63. But in "less secure" they're actually pretty secure, but not as secure as the rest

Oh well, my teacher says that you don't really know the piece till you can play the left hand or right hand alone by memory. (and preferably start anywhere in the piece without the sheet notes)

I think your teacher's quite right about that Btw, I think I've got the same problem like you, hehe. I also know this piece by heart and by hand memory Let's hope I won't get a black out when I have to perform in 2 months

Are you practicing this piece for a concert too or what?

- BB

[joachimf]

Nope no concert =) My teacher only teaches at the conservatory here in Oslo, and I'm not old enough to be there yet, therefore I visit him privately, so there's not many opportunities for me at the moment. (I used to go at a musicschool, and there would be in-house concerts every month) Unless of course he decides to set up a recital for me in the concert hall of the conservatory but I doubt that would happen in any near future (or ever.. lol), and at least not with the Sonatine as repertoire

I think that if you know each hand seperate by heart, you don't need to worry about any blackouts...
But early tomorrow I'm off to Paris to visit my sister, so I won't be able to practise for about a week:(

Joachim

[Bouter Boogie]

But early tomorrow I'm off to Paris to visit my sister, so I won't be able to practise for about a week:(

Joachim

That's a pity, though. But hey, Paris is in France and Ravel is French You can always practice the sonatine afterwards, eh?

- BB