Forgotten composers

[prometheus]

Why are composers like Cramer, Hummel, etc forgotten? And who are the other forgotten composers, once famous and now never performed?

I don't think I actually ever got the chance to hear any of Hummel's piano music. But Cramer's Piano Concerto No.8 is a jewel.

[BoliverAllmon]

albrechtsberger. His PC is very nice.

[alzado]

One must distinguish between minor composers and really obscure composers.

If works by a composer are still readily available from large publishers, like Alfred, then they are minor, but certainly not obscure.

A couple of composers who were considered giants in their time, but are now seldom played, include Edward MacDowell, an American composer who died about 1915, and Anton Rubenstein, a European.

Sometimes composers like Hummel or Cramer will show up in big, thick, period collections as represented by one or two selections.  A good "hunting ground" to find composers who are a bit "off of the beaten path."

[Barbosa-piano]

Of minor composers, I like Hummel's Rondo Op. 11. It is  very exciting, as some of Mozart's music (similar structure, but different style). Rubinstein's Melody in F, and his Romance, are probably his best known pieces... I am sorry, but I am not a huge fan Gottschalk's music... Edward McDowell is a fine composer... Ambroise Thomas... Dussek...
There are many minor composers that composed great music, and I believe the one that is outstanding is Thalberg.

This poster shows a great number of known and minor/obscure composers:https://www.mfiles.co.uk/poster/index.htm (I have posted this before).

Mario Barbosa

[prometheus]

I don't see why someone like Cramer or Hummel should be called a minor composer.

[presto agitato]

Ignaz Moscheles. The most underrated piano composer ever ¡¡¡

His piano works are: https://www.classical-composers.org/cgi-bin/ccd.cgi?comp=moschele.

[BoliverAllmon]

I have his PC and it is good.

[pianiststrongbad]

Some of my favourites are Moszkowski and Liadov.

[chozart]

Friedrich Robert Volkman

played a bunch of his stuff as a kid, but don't hear of him anymore, heh

[da jake]

The best piano composers who aren't famous, imho, are:

Alkan
Anton Rubinstein
Medtner - a beautiful Moiseiwiwiwiwisch's recording of a sonata won me over
Bortkiewicz - piano concerto, etc.
Henselt - some beautiful etudes, interesting and extremely virtuosic piano concerto
Czerny - some really good sonatas, surprisingly
Godowsky - ingenious transcriptions, beautiful miniatures
Moszkowski
Busoni

More famous, but still lacking some street cred:

Scriabin
Scarlatti

[BoliverAllmon]

The best piano composers who aren't famous, imho, are:

Alkan
Anton Rubinstein
Medtner - a beautiful Moiseiwiwiwiwisch's recording of a sonata won me over
Bortkiewicz - piano concerto, etc.
Henselt - some beautiful etudes, interesting and extremely virtuosic piano concerto
Czerny - some really good sonatas, surprisingly
Godowsky - ingenious transcriptions, beautiful miniatures
Moszkowski
Busoni

More famous, but still lacking some street cred:

Scriabin
Scarlatti

Bortkiewicz wrote some great etudes also. koji recorded a couple of them.

[thalbergmad]

There are many minor composers that composed great music, and I believe the one that is outstanding is Thalberg-  Barbosa-Piano.


Well said

I would add Tausig as well

[Skeptopotamus]

I know us pf people talk about him alot but Alkan used to be very famous in his time, and in the 60's or 70's he was VERY posh and all the music snobs just loved him and if you didn't listen to him then you would get quite a lot of snobbery, but now he's pretty much gone back into obscurity.

[bernhard]

I don't see why someone like Cramer or Hummel should be called a minor composer.

Er… Because they composed minor music?

[da jake]

I know us pf people talk about him alot but Alkan used to be very famous in his time, and in the 60's or 70's he was VERY posh and all the music snobs just loved him and if you didn't listen to him then you would get quite a lot of snobbery, but now he's pretty much gone back into obscurity.

This is completely false. What are you basing these comments on?

[Skeptopotamus]

what do you mean? o.O  Since I know I'm right I want to know what you're basing YOUR comment on!  I think that's the better question.

[Skeptopotamus]

Well sir, I just looked up a couple biographies on him, and it seems I was right =)  Look it up yourself hun.

[da jake]

During his youth, Alkan was esteemed as one of the greatest ever pianists. However, two events caused Alkan to withdraw Parisian society - the birth of his illiegitimate son, Delaborde, and the appointment of the inferior Marmontel as head of piano at the conservatory. Ronald Smith also cites Chopin's death as one of the major factors that influenced Alkan's complete withdrawal.

Asside from letters to and from Ferdinand Hiller, his contact with the outside world was virtually nil. Alkan taught piano, but didn't perform in public again until his final years (by that time, his technique had begun to decay).

Alkan performed very rarely in public, and his masterpieces collected dust for decades.

Composers such as Rubinstein, Ravel, and Rachmaninov admired Alkan's music, but did little to champion it.

Busoni's contraversial performance of Alkan didn't really help the latter's cause much, as Busoni performed the Frenchman's Cadenza to Beethoven's Third Concerto in Berlin in those nationalistic pre-WW1 years.

Besides Busoni, Smith, Ogdon, Petri, and Lewenthal also championed Alkan's music. However, it was not until Hamelin's recordings of Alkan in the 90s that truly definitive recordings begun to emerge.

To sum up:

At no point since the 1840's has Alkan been famous among any but the most erudite pianists or music enthusiasts.

[prometheus]

Er… Because they composed minor music?

Let's assume this is true, the average concertgoer has no way to know this. When I look at concert agenda's I see the same stuff everywhere. Gaps are always filled with some Mozart or Beethoven. The talents of today are forced to record works that have already been recorded by tons of people. I really wonder, does the average person that goes to classical performanced really care about music at all?

But why would their music be minor? I would like to see this supported.

[Skeptopotamus]

During his youth, Alkan was esteemed as one of the greatest ever pianists. However, two events caused Alkan to withdraw Parisian society - the birth of his illiegitimate son, Delaborde, and the appointment of the inferior Marmontel as head of piano at the conservatory. Ronald Smith also cites Chopin's death as one of the major factors that influenced Alkan's complete withdrawal.

Asside from letters to and from Ferdinand Hiller, his contact with the outside world was virtually nil. Alkan taught piano, but didn't perform in public again until his final years (by that time, his technique had begun to decay).

Alkan performed very rarely in public, and his masterpieces collected dust for decades.

Composers such as Rubinstein, Ravel, and Rachmaninov admired Alkan's music, but did little to champion it.

Busoni's contraversial performance of Alkan didn't really help the latter's cause much, as Busoni performed the Frenchman's Cadenza to Beethoven's Third Concerto in Berlin in those nationalistic pre-WW1 years.

Besides Busoni, Smith, Ogdon, Petri, and Lewenthal also championed Alkan's music. However, it was not until Hamelin's recordings of Alkan in the 90s that truly definitive recordings begun to emerge.

To sum up:

At no point since the 1840's has Alkan been famous among any but the most erudite pianists or music enthusiasts.

not to mention liebermann, sorabji and finnissy championing his works.  actually, he was one of the biggest and most important pianists up there with Liszt and Thalberg for a while.  His works were performed by Liszt.  So at least we can admit he was important at some point.  But I promise, his music has a resurgence in the music community in the mid and mid-late 1900's, and then faded back into nothing.  I'm not trying to say he was ever rivalling any of the huge composers at this time but in the music community he was very popular for a while, which is all I said.

[da jake]

actually, he was one of the biggest and most important pianists up there with Liszt and Thalberg for a while.

Yeah, we've established that. But his virtuosity didn't secure him any kind of lasting fame. He wasn't a public show-off like Thalberg, Liszt, Dreyshock etc.

 

His works were performed by Liszt.

We know that Liszt was familiar with Alkan's work, but when did he perform Alkan in public? Never.

not to mention liebermann, sorabji and finnissy championing his works. 

Do you think that Emil Gilels, Richter, Horowitz knew that Sorabji(!) wrote favorably about Alkan? No offense to the composers and brilliant minds, but those folks you mentioned did virtually nothing for Alkan's visibility!

But I promise, his music has a resurgence in the music community in the mid and mid-late 1900's, and then faded back into nothing.  I'm not trying to say he was ever rivalling any of the huge composers at this time but in the music community he was very popular for a while, which is all I said.

It's ok to say you didn't read Smith's Alkan biography and don't really know what you're talking about.  The fact that Alkan was and is not well known doesn't mean that he isn't important or the great composer that he is. Just don't go around making statements you can't back up.

[Skeptopotamus]

It's ok to say you didn't read Smith's Alkan biography and don't really know what you're talking about.  The fact that Alkan was and is not well known doesn't mean that he isn't important or the great composer that he is. Just don't go around making statements you can't back up.

You know, there is probably more than one biography on him.  I don't know where you copy/pasted your cute little bio from, nor do I care but I guess it was from the smith thing.  And I didnt make any statements I can't back up; i already did.

"I know us pf people talk about him alot but Alkan used to be very famous in his time, and in the 60's or 70's he was VERY posh and all the music snobs just loved him and if you didn't listen to him then you would get quite a lot of snobbery, but now he's pretty much gone back into obscurity."


this is what I said in the first place, and then you go off on some random tangents that don't have anything to do with what I said sweetheart.  Everything I said there was true.  And yes, Liszt did perform works by Alkan =P

[da jake]

The thing about Alkan being "posh" and well known in the 60's and 70's may have caused some to actually believe he was recognized as a mainstream composer. My post sought to rectify any misunderstandings yours could have caused.

Your claim of plagiarism is pathetic.  Not only did I write that myself, I actually put thought into it, which is more anyone can say about your puerile remarks. For future reference, plagiarists don't reference the supposed plagiarised material "Ronald Smith notes...". I actually started the net's first "Alkan Fansite", at alkan.bluestealth.com (which turned out to be a disaster).  Anyways, I know what I'm talking about. You clearly do not.

And yes, Liszt did perform works by Alkan =P

Source? If you're right, Mea Culpa. I suspect you aren't though.

[Skeptopotamus]

sorry for accusing you of plagiarism.  honestly.


my source on that is things I've heard from other people on here so I guess I could be wrong on that too.  But I'm gonna go look it up cause I hate to be wrong ><

[Skeptopotamus]

well from what i can tell Liszt really admired Alkan and was quoted saying he had the best technique he had ever seen and liked his works so I'm assuming he performed his works at one point or another.

[da jake]

Apology accepted. Sorry if I went a bit overboard. 

Liszt was the dedicatee of Alkan's opus 15, so he certainly played some of Alkan's work. There are no records of Liszt playing Alkan in public.

Interestingly enough, Chopin performed with Alkan the latter's eight-hand arrangement of Beethoven's 7th symphony.

[Skeptopotamus]

im sorry too ^^  So what are your favorite Alkan pieces/which do you play?

[da jake]

Well, I started lessons last September, so I'm not quite  () technically proficient enough to do any major pieces.

My faves are:

Opus 15 (aime-moi & morte), 21 (duo concertante), 39 (symph, concerto, festin), 61 (sonatine), 76 (l-hand, r-hand etudes)

The only Alkan piece I've played so far is Barcarolle. 

you?

[Skeptopotamus]

oooh I like the barcolle ^^  It's a really nice piece.  My favorites are the Op. 39 4,5,6,7 (symphonie) 1 (comme le vent), le preux, op. 76 (right hand) and the Deuxieme Recueil d'Impromtus.


*plays Symphonie pour Solo Piano, Le Preux and Comme Le Vent*  I'm gonna have a recording of the Symphonie up soon too and you can tell me what you think of it ^^  I wanna learn Deuxieme Recueil d'Impromtus but no time *cries*

[presto agitato]

More famous, but still lacking some street cred:

Scriabin
Scarlatti

Plus: Franck and Reger

[Nightscape]

None of these composers are "forgotten".   If a composer was forgotten, nobody here would be able to mention him/her!

[da jake]

No, no wait. There was that one guy...wrote a few...what where they? He wore a shirt sometimes. You know who I mean. 

[Skeptopotamus]

yeah!  the guy with the face and the eyes who did the... stuff.   or maybe it was a girl...

[musik_man]

Er… Because they composed minor music?

I agree.  While I haven't heard pieces by every one of these minor composers, what I have heard is definitely a notch below the more major composers.  The Busoni Concerto for example just goes on and on endlessly without saying anything really interesting.

[burstroman]

Hi,  Why not consider Mrs. H.H.A. Beach?

[bernhard]

Hi,  Why not consider Mrs. H.H.A. Beach?

I will second that.