Trills - a beginner doubt

[stormx]

Hi !! 

I play Clementi's Sonatina Op.36 n°1.
I have a question regarding trills in 2° movement. I will describe that specific part, the best i can 

LH plays a triplet C-E-G (that is, 3 (1/8) notes that fit a quarter note). At the same time, RH makes a trill on another G. Right now, i play a very simple version, like this:

RH: AG - AG - FG
LH: C   - E   - G

That is, a single trill (AG) for each of the first 2 notes of the LH (C and E), and the 2 finish notes of the trill (FG) fitting the third note of the LH. Is this clear? 

So far, so good..this is not complicate. However, i should go a step further, and add another cycle to the trill. My teacher suggests to play 3 cycles instead of 2 (AGAGAGFG). My problem is that this way the correspondence between the notes on the bass and those of the RH becomes much more complicate (not just 2 RH for one LH, like now).

It can even be more manageable for my brain to make 5 cycles (6 with the finish, that would be AGAGAGAGAGFG), that is 4 RH notes for each LH. But this has the drawback of being very fast, which is in turn another complication.

So, to play "3 cycles + finish", do you just have to uncoordinate both hands and just think:
"AGAGAGFG" must fit in "CEG"?
How do you manage this?

Sorry for being so unclear, but it is difficult for me to speak english, and writing music in text form does not facilitate the issue 

[abell88]

Your question is quite clear. I'm sure there will be a few options offered...one possibility is to do triplet 16ths (3 sixteenths in the time of each triplet 8th note) for the first two 8ths, then a turn of four notes for the third: AGA GAG AGFG.

[steinwayguy]

Abell88 was a little long-winded. Quite simply, you need to practice it, alright?

[stormx]

Steinwayguy, you are not forced to reply to every topic.

If you do not have nothing interesting to say, or you beleive the issue is irrelevant, just leave it alone.

[bernhard]

Either of the two realisations below is correct. (And you are right: your teacher’s suggestions is going to generate a polirhythm. And we do not want that, do we?)



Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[stormx]

Thanks for your replies !! 

Abell88:
the problem is see in your proposed way to play the trill is that not all notes will be the same value.

Bernhard:
an image is better than thousands of words !!
You confirmed what i tought 
I am currently playing the first version you showed.
According to your opinion, and your knowledge of the piece, do you think that the second version will sound much better?

[lostinidlewonder]

I might add, eventually try not to think of the trill as notes inbetween or together with other notes, but rather a body of sound which leads us to something. So in the image Bernhard has posted you see the trill leads to an A, so we have to anticipate this sound while we are trilling, this then makes the trill more musical and with meaning rather than just notes to fill in the gaps.

[bernhard]

Thanks for your replies !! 

Abell88:
the problem is see in your proposed way to play the trill is that not all notes will be the same value.

Bernhard:
an image is better than thousands of words !!
You confirmed what i tought 
I am currently playing the first version you showed.
According to your opinion, and your knowledge of the piece, do you think that the second version will sound much better?

The version you can play the best is the one which will sound the best. If you can play both equally well, then I would go for the second (faster version)

And Lostetc. is completely right. Listen to him.

And one more thing. Although the trill is notated in very regular time values, usually they are not played like that. You can for instance, start slower and accelerate towards the end. While practising, of course, make it even and make sure the RH notes go with the LH notes. However you want to so ingrain the passage in your mind/fingers that it should sound as if both hands were producing independent sounds that happen to be co-ordinated together. (Difficult to explain, easy to show, but I trust you will get my drift).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

And one more thing, Naxos has a CD of all the Clementi sonatas.

[stormx]

Thanks again !!

i already have a Naxos CD with this sonatina. Szokolay (sp?) plays it wonderfully (insane speed in 3º movement  ).

[bernhard]

Thanks again !!

i already have a Naxos CD with this sonatina. Szokolay (sp?) plays it wonderfully (insane speed in 3º movement  ).

You are welcome again.