Keep this student or drop?

[Astyron]

I have a family who often calls and cancels last minute, the daughter isn't particularly attentive and I'm not even sure she enjoys what she's doing (she's 6).  They signed up and paid for summer lessons and then didn't come to the first four lessons.  THey never called, and didn't return my emails or calls.  I typed up a release letter and was ready to mail it out when they suddenly showed up for the fifth summer lesson, the same day I was going to send the letter out.  The mother said, "I emailed you but my email hasn't been working correctly so I guess it didn't get to you.  My father was sick [not life or death] so we decided to go out and spend a month with him."  I told her that if she was going to not show up for a months worth of lessons that I would have appreciated a call to cancel all those appointments, particularly if she knew her email wasn't working.  I also explained that I had a release letter that I had planned to put in the mail that day.  She very non-chalatnly said, "Oh, well I can make other arrangements I guess." but her daughter was already in the music room unpacked.  So I taught her a lesson.  I'm quite annoyed that they would not call and cancel that many appointments, knowing their email wasn't working.  It was QUITE rude. 

Should I finish summer lessons and drop them?
Should I keep going with lessons and drop if something like that happens again?

[m1469]

OH MAN !!!

This just burns me from my very core to my outsides right to a flaming crisp  . 

What would be your reasons to keep them ?


m1469

[Astyron]

I've been asking myself this question for the last several days.  Here's what I came up with:

Pros of keeping them:
1. income
2. the mother actively helps her daughter practice almost every day
3. the child is very polite (though difficult to teach because she's quite shy)


Cons of keeping them:
1. They cancel lessons last minute when I can do nothing with that time, usually relying on me getting an email.
2. The mother sends the most illiterate emails (when her email works) that I can't understand because her grammar skills are so terrible, and I end up having to call them anyway.  This frustrates me and wastes time.  I guess this is a snobby "con" -- I should feel sorry for her inability to communicate well.  But, still, it wastes my time and I don't have lots of that during lesson hours.
3. The daughter isn't improving, doesn't seem to understand despite the many angles I've tried with her; it's frustrating.

That's all I can come up with.  Odds are they'll do it to me again.  They've stood me up before thanks to relying on technology that didn't deliver their email. *shrugs*  I guess the more humane side of me thinks, "Aww, her father was sick, they were worried.  At least she tried to contact me."  But the business part of me thinks, "How do you KNOW they REALLY tried to email you.  This is a hassle."   I don't know about you, but I've found that parents lie all the time to cover for themselves and save from embarassment.  I'll bet she didn't email me at all, but now I'm probably just being callous.

[Aziel]

Drop her like a bad habit.

[m1469]

I do try to be understanding toward my students and their family affairs, and probably I have let things go that I would tell other's not to.  But this situation just bothers me and I am not even you (at least as far as I can tell   ).

If you keep her, I would definitely have a written plan of how you run your business and have a talk with mommio so she is clear about what you expect.  And then follow through with the plan if things do not go as you have outlined.  You should at the very least, imo, still charge for lessons that are cancelled at the last minute.

Okay, that's it for now.


m1469

[lagin]

I had the same problem, but I then I decided to charge for missed lessons, if less than 24 hours notice is given.  And they don't get the money back if the do give me notice, but get a credit.  My problem was quickly solved after that.  They started hardly missing a lesson, and have never not warned me again.  Is this similar to how you're doing it?  Do you get to keep that missed months worth of lessons? 

[jeremyjchilds]

Just make sure your policy states that lessons be paid for up front (post dated checks) and missed lessons will not be refunded, jsut made up if notice is given...then if they don't show up, it gives you time to keep reading the WTC for the ninetieth time...

[Astyron]

I have my studio policies spelled out clearly in a handbook that everyone gets at the beginning of every school year.  They also pay in advance.  These people prepaid for the whole summer.  During the school year I do "tuition", which is what I've dubbed paying for three months at a time.  According to my handbook it states, " Families who do not pay for their lessons on time repeatedly, write bad checks, or do not show up for lessons will be dropped from my studio after being given one: verbally warning, letter, or emailed.  If irresponsible payment continues after the warning, that student(s) will be dropped from the studio."   I've given her a verbal warning twice now, as well as emailing her twice this summer concerned about the absences, and called once to leave a voice mail. 

Yeah, I guess I've held up my end.  I guess I'll teach the last few summer lessons (I think they've paid for one more) then cut them loose, which I realize is more than I should even do.  To me it just seems like a compromise.  I just wasn't sure if I was over-reacting since the cause was her father being sick.  It was an emergency and I suppose if she was really concerned her family ought to come first, but hell, the phone company would still shut off their phone service if they didn't pay their bill while they were gone.  Business is business. 

[timothy42b]

  Business is business. 

It would be dangerous to drop her, after that statement.

Business is business?  I think not.  Yes, the phone company would disconnect her if she didn't pay her bills.  But she is paying her bills.  Would the phone company disconnect her if she didn't make any calls? 

Your reasons for dropping her may be valid.  But they are not business, and they are not intellectual.  They are clearly emotionally based.  You are upset with this family.  They paid for the time, which you can now use in all sorts of productive ways, but this makes you angry. 

That's okay too.  But it appears to me that you have not figured out why you are upset with them, and that is the dangerous part.  You could use this experience to become more aware of your own agendas. 

Maybe you'd even figure out how to help her improve. 

[Astyron]

They paid for the time, which you can now use in all sorts of productive ways, but this makes you angry.

That's why I asked originally if I should drop them AFTER summer lessons or not drop them or drop them if it happens again.  I'd just prefer to give them what they paid for. 

But it appears to me that you have not figured out why you are upset with them, and that is the dangerous part.  You could use this experience to become more aware of your own agendas.  

I know why I'm upset with them, just not if I'm justified or not.  I'm upset with the mother because she doesn't respect studio policy and despite my asking her to call me to cancel last minute, multiple times, she doesn't.  I'm pretty clear on why I'm upset with the mom.  I'm NOT clear on if I'm justified to drop her due to not contacting me when it's due to leaving to visit her father (at least that's the reason this time.  Last time it was something trivial)

[timothy42b]

Okay.

No, you are not justified.

Look at it from the parent's viewpoint.  (or my viewpoint, as a neutral observer).

You let them slide numerous times when the excuses were trivial, and now the one time they have a really good reason, you're going to slam them? 

The ill will you will generate is not worth it.  You will create a parent that hates you and will badmouth you all over town. 

I still think there's more going on here that you aren't very aware of.  But as the teacher you have the right to set your own studio policies and drop whoever you like.  Doing it tactfully is going to be a challenge.  I'm not sure why you are so insistent, as you're not losing any pay.  (I hope you're not refunding any lesson fees when they don't show.)  Your policy is clear, you intend to punish "irresponsible behavior."  (not sure why, you're not the parent or the police)  But they accepted your rules when they signed up, and you have the right to drop them for repeated no-shows even though they pay and are otherwise good customers.  Imagine, a parent who makes their child practise.  I thought I was the only one! 

Why do you suppose a child who practices, and tries, does not make progress?  Could this be the source of some of your reaction?  I have to admit I think you are overreacting a bit. 

[Astyron]

Hm.  2 for drop, 2 for don't drop, and 2 or 3 saying make sure it's in my policy.  Stalemate.

I actually didn't let them slide numerous times.  I've been quote consistant with them and with my studio policy.  They did it to me once before this summer and I talked to them about studio policy, referring them to my handbook.  Counting the four noshows this summer constitutes the "numerous times" I previously mentioned.  My handbook states that if people repeatedly don't show up for lessons then I reserve the right to drop them.  So now they've reached "repeatedly".   

Regarding the no progress questions -- I have some theories (she's the only student in my whole studio that's kind of treading water) and have what her mom has told me.  Her mom tells me she doesn't learn fast and certainly seems to be true.  From what I've observed, the mom doesn't let the girl try anything or think for herself.  The girl has gotten very used to shrugging and looking at her mom, waiting for her mom to answer questions for her.  I've politely asked the mom to not help her; let her think for a minute or two and then tell me she doesn't know, if she doesn't know.  Now, when I ask the girl questions (such as "How many beats does this note get?), the mom is answering for her less, at least in lessons. 

So to answer your last question, I don't think the child's lack of progress is the source of my reaction.  Disregarding studio policies are.  I don't like being stood up, particularly after talking to them directly about it once before.  I don't enjoy asking a person to CALL me if they need to cancel last minute in case email doesn't go through, and then they don't.  I don't like someone nonchalantly saying they tried to email me and OH by the way my email doesn't work right so I have no idea if it got through or not.  I don't enjoy continuing to put up with irresponsible parent behaviour after encouraging them and showing them policy in the hendbook on multiple issues.    Is THAT so wrong?  You sounded pretty angry AT ME in your post, timothy.  Sorry to have offended you so.  It sounds like you feel that letting any student/family go is a bad idea if it generates ill will.   I don't think it's possible to let someone go from a studio and not tick someone off.  It's just a reality of dismissing someone from a studio.  If you had a problem student/family, would you teach them until they left instead? Regardless of late payment, or no shows, or other issues that relate to your studio policy?

[timothy42b]

Looks like I hit a nerve.  Oops. 

You asked for advice.  It appears now you have made the decision to drop, and you are really looking for validation and reassurance.  I won't give you that, because I don't agree.

Clearly you consider this a problem student, or at least a problem mom.  From the facts you've given us it is not clear why you've come to this point, nor why you feel so strongly about it.

All I see is one unexcused absence last year, and one excused absence this year.  (you can't count four times as "repeated," they are all for one illness.  Come on, be fair.)  In my book that wouldn't be enough.  Besides, the rules exist for a purpose.  They have no validity in and of themselves.  You are not required to enforce your own rules for any given student if they don't further the purpose of teaching that student.  There is no governmental agency that will inspect your records and fine you for failing to drop a student, even if they miss 10 times.  Or 100. 

Are you angry with the mom, and going to punish the student?  You are certainly angry with someone, I could hear the strain on the keyboard as you typed. 

I'm not going to psychoanalyze you, not for free anyway!  <grin>  I will just observe that I think you overreacted to this student, and that you have overreacted to my disagreeing with you, and that there may be some common factors.  I will guess that you may be not sure yourself why, in either case.  I may have been direct, but have not been rude or confrontive. 

If you keep the student - though I don't think you will - you ought to try to figure out if the lack of progress is the best you can expect, or if there is something you could do differently for her.  Hey, come back and ask that question if you like.  That's a more interesting one, I think. 

[galonia]

It's not just a matter of getting paid.

Definitely, missed lessons without sufficient warning are forfeited by the parents - they have paid the fees and if they don't bring the kid, they can't have the money back because you have set aside the time for the kid.

But the problem with missed lessons is that often, it disrupts the child's learning.  Most children learn better with a set routine.  If you explain that to the parents, and that they must make a commitment to bring the child to lessons regularly, things may improve.

If you feel like you've given them enough warnings and chances, and you think nothing is going to improve their behaviour (which, from your description, sounds to me like the height of rudeness), I would just say goodbye to this student.

If students are late, it's unfair to other students, too - if you make the students afterwards late.  How do you know they don't have other appointments?

If you have a studio policy which has been communicated, you must stick to it.  This is the only way to be fair to everybody.

One of my favourite students was once half-an-hour late to his lesson (he was only having half-hour lessons) - the mother did not call to warn me, and I didn't really have anything else to do at the time, had nothing planned, and I really felt like teaching him, but I still turned him away and said to the mother that I had something else on.  Because it's not fair for me to be sitting around all day wondering whether people will turn up, and when they might turn up.

[clariniano]

Drop the student. Don't care if you need the money. Why? Bad karma repels good karma (and replace karma with students, still holds true), and good students attract good students and repels poor ones. I once had a horrible high school student who didn't pay promptly and had a wide range of excuses for missing lessons, I finally told her one day I was dropping her, as I had enough. When I got rid of her, I got 7 new students in 3 months, while the entire time she was studying with me, I did not get a single new student!

Meri

[maryruth]

It's up to you.  Do you want the student?

However, my question is, why did you let it go 4 lessons before you called?  If I have a student that's more than 10 minutes late I'm on the phone.  "Hello!  Are you coming to your lesson today?"  I've only had to do this a few times, but it does put them on the spot, and then they come to their lesson--late--for a short lesson and then they never forget when their lesson is again.

[Astyron]

Maryruth:  To answer your question, I actually didn't let it go.  I just didn't ever get a response.  I talked to the mother on the phone immediately after the very first occurance and told her that in the future she should call if she's canceling at the last minute.  I phoned immediately after the 2nd time at the beginning of summer (with no return call from the mom -- of course I dind't know she was out of town).  After the next summer lesson was missed I decided to send an email that time in case their phones weren't working and recommended they call me and reminded them that skipped lessons result in students being dropped from the studio; please call.  After the third summer lesson missed I phoned again (of course no answer again), left a simple please call me" message and planned to tell them they were dropped since, at that point, there was no reason at all that they were missing.  They didn't call back that time either so then, a few days later, I wrote out the letter.  A day later (before I mailed it) they showed up..   When they showed up for their lesson the other day I asked her if she had gotten any of my phone messages or emails and she said "Oh, I haven't even bothered listening to all the messages.  I heard part of what you said," as if she wasn't terribly interested.  Maybe that clarifies the phone call thing.  I think I did the best I could regarding the phone calls.  I wished she had a cell phone because frankly I was worried more than anything.  It's usually never a good thing when someone just disappears off the face of the planet like that.  Thanks for the input.

Clariniano: Yes, that's happenned to me on more than one occasion and it always puzzles me when it does happen.  It's an interesting and strange thing!

Galonia:  Regarding consistancy of lessons and disrupting learning -- Yes!    I have something along those very lines in my handbook and posted on my bulletin board.  My conundrum with this situation is that I want to just overlook this, but the logical part of me wants to be fair to all, as you've said.  Parents are VERY quick to point out when they think you're not being fair; at least some are.

Thank you, all,  for the responses. 

[maryruth]

Sorry, I didn't realize you'd called after each missed lesson---didn't see that mentioned in the initial post.  Well, if you called them after each missed lesson and left a message which they didn't return and you did this 3 times?  Well, if you decide to drop them I think you're completely justified.  What's the point of signing up for piano lessons and stuff if you're not going to go?  Even if they pay but don't come, wouldn't you rather have a paying student that actually showed up?

Yeah, this time it was a family emergency...but, if it's happened in the past.  Maybe if you aren't ready to cancel them now, let them know that this is the absolute last time they can neglect to inform you.  Spell it out really well, write it out, and then hold them to it.  If they really want piano lessons, they'll make the effort.  If they don't, they won't. 

[lagin]

Well, personally, I'd say, "According to my policy, blah, blah, blah...., and I can't show favoritism and have to be fair to the other students.  I've let this go twice already which is more than agreed to, but I have to warn you that if this happens one more time, I need to drop your daughter.  It's not fair to her, me, or the other students." 

I've put my foot down on this and on payment issues twice this year, and the parents realized I was serious, and it's been alot better since.  You're giving grace (one more try) but at the same time being stern (that's the last try). 

In the end it's up to your descretion.  The problem with my suggestion is that, if they do it once more you have to drop them, or else you'll never be taken seriously again.  You could say, one more time and then she gets a suspension, meaning she can eventually come back.  There's pros and cons to every aspect.  The con being her learning is interrupted, the pro being you don't lose her.  These are just some thoughts.  You could really put the parent on the spot, and be like, we have a problem.  This is what it is.  What do YOU think we should do about it/ to correct it/ to avoid it happening again?  (staying polite, of course). 

[timothy42b]

I see I'm the lone voice crying in the wilderness here.

Well, rules are important. 

So are compassion and empathy.

Sometimes you have to use judgement.  Never let the rules substitute for judgement.

The child is six.  The mother had a family tragedy.  It is possible, barely possible, that the call to the piano teacher was not her number one top priority this summer.  (nearly incomprehensible, I know)  On that basis I'd be inclined to cut them some slack. 

But then, I like children.  Go figure. 

[Astyron]

Maryruth -- Your solution is the same one I've been leaning towards, and the first thing that popped into my head at the start since it seems a compromise of the situation.   I'm still not 100% sure, but nearing around 90% sure that's what I'll do.  While I'm yet frustrated at the flippancy,  the issue of lesson truancy will be indicated in a general reminder to all in my fall newsletter which will hopefully help the situation.  I plan to talk to them after the newsletter is out about their particular situation.  I appreciate you reciprocating with good ideas and hope that you have ongoing luck with your student situation as well.  "Om..."   

Tim -- You never had me all figured out and it's been wearying reading things like "It appears now you have made the decision to drop, and you are really looking for validation and reassurance," gems like "Sometimes you have to use judgement," as if I don't do so, and sarcasm like "nearly incomprehensible, I know."    Tim, sometimes you need to not only use judgement, but reserve it on an internet board where you really don't know people and may not have all the details right away.   Of course, I doubt that will change after skimming some of your other posts. 

I've gotten what I need out of this thread, and then some.  Thanks people.  *unbookmarks*