Rate the underplayed Concertos:

[moose_opus_28]

And yes, I know this isn't all of them.  And rate them however you like, or just talk about them.

Scriabin - I know it isn't the best, but the 2nd movement is so beautiful and the 3rd so rediculously romantic, I have to say 8.5/10
Saint-Saens 4th - The only reason I can think of for this being seldomly performed is that it is downright evil.  Hardest concerto I've messed with.  9/10
Moszkowski - So pretty! So cheesy!  That's about it there...the last movement just isn't that great....9/10
Corigliano - Sweetness from start to finish as far as I'm concerned.  10/10
Grieg - >_>  Gotcha.

[mlsmithz]

The Saint-Saens No.4, underplayed?  It's second only to No.2 (or at worst third behind No.5 as well) in terms of exposure - it's the others that are underplayed.  Anyway, I would have something to say here about the infamous Henselt F minor, but I've only ever heard part of it, and that was just the once.  Hamelin's recording has some Alkan on the disc as well, though, which is reason enough for me to buy it somewhere down the line.

[moose_opus_28]

Really? I've never seen the Saint-Saens programed...and most people I've talked to haven't heard of it.  Must be different in different parts of the world or country.

[brewtality]

Anyway, I would have something to say here about the infamous Henselt F minor, but I've only ever heard part of it, and that was just the once.

 

infamous? surely not; its a wonderful piece that's been unfairly neglected.

[mlsmithz]

The infamy to which I alluded is the result of its technical difficulty, which, I suspect, is the reason for its neglect by everyone except, naturally, Marc-Andre Hamelin.

[prometheus]

Reger 11/10

[thalbergmad]

From what I have listened to from Hyperions excellent Romantic Concerto collection

1. Henselt
2. Bortkiewicz
3. Sauer
4. Scharwenka
5. Brull

[stevie]

From what I have listened to from Hyperions excellent Romantic Concerto collection

1. Henselt
2. Bortkiewicz
3. Sauer
4. Scharwenka
5. Brull

i own and adore all those except the brull, can you describe it?

[thalbergmad]

It is almost Brahms but not as good. Not far off though.

The first concerto was written when he was 14?.

The 2nd is the better.

Well worth adding to your collection.

I am going to add another to my list

6. D'albert

[Motrax]

I second the Moszkowski concerto. Though it isn't by any means profound or "deep," it makes up for that in simple delight.

Oddly, my favorite Saint-Saens concerto is number 3, which nobody else ever seems to mention.

Alkan's Chamber concertos are definitely worth a listen, as is the concerto by Amy Beach. Gershwin's concerto in F major is a great piece too. And that's about all I can think of at the moment.

[stevie]

of all these, i consider the bortkiewicz no1 to be the most underplayed, if rachmaninov had written this, it would be just as popular as rach 2 and 3, i think.

[prometheus]

I also love Cramer 8

[sharon_f]

I really like the Saint-Saens 1st and it is almost never performed. Other concertos I find criminally underplayed are the Franck Symphonic Variations, the Weber Konzertstucke and the concertos of John Field. I especially love his 2nd and 4th.

[mlsmithz]

I must admit to having a soft spot for the Saint-Saens E-flat major (No.3), especially the fluid, serene introduction to the first movement, but I wouldn't label it one of the best in the set.  The D major (No.1) never left much of an impression on me.... and given its relative neglect, I'm apparently not alone in this, which seems a shame. (I probably just need to give it another chance.) As for Alkan's chamber concerti, they're on Hamelin's disc of the Henselt F minor; all the more reason to buy it, I think!

Speaking of concerti in F minor by composers with reputations for writing difficult pieces, after perusing the score thereof, I'm rather curious about the Reger - is Derwinger's recording with the Norrkoping SO under Segerstam any good? (I've heard the Suite in the Old Style, which is also on the disc, and enjoyed it very much, but there are no reviews of the recording on Amazon.)

At risk of going against the spirit of this thread, one of my favourite Mozart concerti is No.11 in F major, K.413 - the orchestral entrances at the end of the exposition and just before the cadenza are, for reasons I can't quite name, two of my favourite Mozart moments.  However, it's certainly not one of his most widely performed (especially not compared to its immediate successor, K.414, which I can't stand).

[brewtality]

The infamy to which I alluded is the result of its technical difficulty, which, I suspect, is the reason for its neglect by everyone except, naturally, Marc-Andre Hamelin.

actually I think the main problem is that Henselt had a freak hand stretch. I read that Anton Rubinstein started learning the F minor but gave up after 3 days because it was written for Henselt and his hands couldn't cope with it. Still I'd imagine that there'd be heaps of young pianists capable of playing it but it seems they'd rather play the same 10 or so concerti over and over.

Speaking of Rubinstein, I adore his 3rd and 4th concerti. Its a shame that they are so rarely played.

[mlsmithz]

That reminds me of Horowitz' reaction to Godowsky's Passacaglia and Fugue on the introduction to Schubert's 'Unfinished' symphony - something along the lines of "It's ridiculous!  You need six hands to play it!"  This coming from someone who arranged the Rakoczy March to make it sound as though he had six or more fingers on either hand.  Now, of course, Hamelin has recorded the Passacaglia.... anyone know if he lives near a nuclear waste disposal area?

Godowsky didn't write any concerti, did he?  Just the mammoth E minor sonata, I presume. (Among larger scale pieces, I mean.)

[pita bread]

Now, of course, Hamelin has recorded the Passacaglia.... anyone know if he lives near a nuclear waste disposal area?

He's from Canada, is that close enough? 

[stevie]

i think horowitz simply didnt like the music enough to put the extreme effort into learning it.

marc-andre lives in philadelphia with his wife

marc, being the modest man he is, professes in the liner notes to that disc that it isnt 'that hard', of course that doesnt mean much coming from a man that eats alkan for breakfast and ornstein for lunch.

[brewtality]

I'm listening to it now, great piece.

[prometheus]

Like Hamelin himself said. Every pianists nowadays learns the Rachmaninoff 3rd. So why don't they try to learn some other rares stuff?

I have a recording by de Groote. I have no idea how good or bad it is compared to other recordings because I have only heard this one.

[frederic]

of all these, i consider the bortkiewicz no1 to be the most underplayed, if rachmaninov had written this, it would be just as popular as rach 2 and 3, i think.

Precisely. Rachmaninoff's 5th concerto. Everytime I listen to it I tell myself that it's by Rachmaninoff and not some random stranger named Bortkiewicz. Whether Bortkiewicz takes that as a compliment or an insult, it doesn't bother me, he's dead.

[fred smalls]

Wow: Cool Thread

Scriabin - 10/10
Mozkowski - 10/10
Saint-Saens 1 - 10/10
Saint-Saens 3 - 10/10
Tchaikovsky Concert Fantasy - 10/10
Tchaikovsky 2 - 10/10
Tchaikovsky 3 - 10/10


Yeah, I know the Tchaikovsky 2 might not be considered "underplayed", but for how good it is - it really is underplayed...

I like concertos...

Peace
Fred Smalls

[mlsmithz]

Yeah, I know the Tchaikovsky 2 might not be considered "underplayed", but for how good it is - it really is underplayed...

Not to mention that it's seriously underplayed next to No.1.  I've only seen a handful of recordings of No.2, and even fewer of No.3 - though I've seen Louis Lortie perform No.3 (along with Prokofiev No.1 - reverse those numbers and you get each composer's most popular concerto, which is rather uncanny), it only seems to feature on recordings of all three concerti.

On a related note, are there any recordings where the Andante and Finale, Op.79 are treated as the second and third movement of the third concerto?  I'm sure I saw one once but can't remember the soloist or orchestra and have had no luck finding it on Amazon (there is a recording applying this treatment on the Classical Archives, but it's not quite the same as a CD).

And speaking of Rachmaninov's "Concerto No.5", I've heard part of an orchestral arrangement of the Trio elegiaque in D minor, Op.9 (itself a very underplayed yet emotionally powerful piece), which I've seen described as "the fifth concerto Rachmaninov never wrote" (unless one considers the Paganini Rhapsody a concerto, I presume).  I'd give that one 10/10.

[fred smalls]

May I also add:

Debussy: Fantasy for Piano and Orchestra - 10/10

Peace
Fred Smalls

[frederic]

And speaking of Rachmaninov's "Concerto No.5", I've heard part of an orchestral arrangement of the Trio elegiaque in D minor, Op.9 (itself a very underplayed yet emotionally powerful piece), which I've seen described as "the fifth concerto Rachmaninov never wrote" (unless one considers the Paganini Rhapsody a concerto, I presume). I'd give that one 10/10.

Hmmm yes! The Trio elegiaque is amazing. Where did you hear this arrangement? His first Trio elegiaque (G minor) is just as good. The only thing letting this pair of trio down is their length. The first movement of the D minor is edgying towards 20minutes. My trio wanted to enter this in a competition but because of the time restraints, we couldn't. I'll be interested in hearing this orchestral arrangement. Sure, the piano part is certainly concerto writing.

[perfect_pitch]

I Personally thought that Brahms 2nd Piano Concerto was technically boring. It just went on an on... like going through the australian outback - Nothing to interest you, just loads of plain boring land.

And the finale - well, there wasn't really a finale. It just seemd to end.                 And that was it.

Moszkowski - Piano Concerto in E is my absolute favourite. A little bit of the flambouyancy of Rachmaninoff, but a bit more experimental. Love it.

[tater_tot]

What about the Paderewski concerto? I think that if it, in terms of workmanship, falls behind the Grieg, Tchaik. 1, etc., it's only by a hair. Plus there's a wonderful recording of Piers Lane playing it coupled with the Moszkowski.

[mlsmithz]

Hmmm yes! The Trio elegiaque is amazing. Where did you hear this arrangement? His first Trio elegiaque (G minor) is just as good. The only thing letting this pair of trio down is their length. The first movement of the D minor is edgying towards 20minutes. My trio wanted to enter this in a competition but because of the time restraints, we couldn't. I'll be interested in hearing this orchestral arrangement. Sure, the piano part is certainly concerto writing.

Truth be told I've only heard the first 60 seconds of each movement on Amazon (my rating is perhaps more applicable to the trio arrangement, which I heard performed by the Florestan Trio last spring), but it uses the sort of lush arrangements typifying Rachmaninov's orchestral works (which I know some people find overwrought but I don't mind them as long as they don't go too OTT).  I can't remember the name of the soloist offhand (he's Australian, that's all I remember), but the orchestra is the DSO under Jarvi.  The disc also includes concerto-style arrangements of the Corelli variations and 'Vocalise'.  I've been meaning to buy it for some time now.

As for the Trio elegiaque itself, I think the first two movements both nudge the 20-minute mark; I suspect an argument could be made that there isn't much substance filling those two sets of 20 minutes, but it's not one to which I would subscribe.  The first and second movements are two of the more emotionally affecting Rachmaninov movements I've heard, and that's enough for me to enjoy every minute of them.

[frederic]

What about the Paderewski concerto? I think that if it, in terms of workmanship, falls behind the Grieg, Tchaik. 1, etc., it's only by a hair. Plus there's a wonderful recording of Piers Lane playing it coupled with the Moszkowski.

Yes i love the Paderewski very much.  Does anyone here have the score in pdf? i'd love to have a look.

[brewtality]

Yes i love the Paderewski very much.  Does anyone here have the score in pdf? i'd love to have a look.

I have it, i'll trade you for the recording 
this is yet another concerto that I have the sheets for but have never heard.

[stevie]

what about the thalberg concerto?

i bought the naxos recording of it ages ago, and it really is very good!

memorable themes, and some really great parts, i remember one part reminding me of the finale of chopin's 3rd sonata.

incidentally, on the same cd theres a recording of thalberg's fantasy on beethoven's 7th symphony slow movement, which was really cool too.

[thalbergmad]

what about the thalberg concerto?

i bought the naxos recording of it ages ago, and it really is very good!

memorable themes, and some really great parts, i remember one part reminding me of the finale of chopin's 3rd sonata.

incidentally, on the same cd theres a recording of thalberg's fantasy on beethoven's 7th symphony slow movement, which was really cool too.

I was waiting to see if anyone mentioned this excellent Concerto. I am so glad someone has.

Stevie-What did you think of the Nocturne on the same disc??