is radiohead 'classical music'?

[stevie]

https://www.truelovewaits.cc/

listen to the streaming tracks on there, with the richness of texture and interesting harmony and striking melodies, youd think you were listening to some modern jazz pianist, or a modern 'classical' composer's work.

well youd be wrong, because its music by the 'rock' band radiohead, transcribed for solo piano by the noted pianist(and a cliburn runner up years ago, i believe) christopher o'riley(he also shares piano teacher with marc-andre hamelin).

i use quotation marks, because thats what this is all about, categories. i am amused and slightly confused when i read critics and fans call this 'radio head turned into classical music.

in reality, all that has changed is the instrumentation, and its performed in a more rhythmically free way(rock bands have never heard of rubato), so all of a sudden it becomes classical music because its on piano?

also, this reminds me of the transcriptions for a group of 4 cellos of songs my the popular heavy metal band metallica, these are note for note transcriptions, so again, the only thing that has changed is the instrumentation...and yet , the metallica fans also call this 'a classical take on metallica'.

so why on earth does that suddenly make it 'classical music'?

i will reiterate, the only differences are the rhythmically and dynamically freer performance style(inherent in playing on acoustic instruments, as opposed to dynamically limited electric guitars, etc) and the instrumentation.

this begs the question, is instumentation what defines 'classical music'?
is radiohead or metallica already 'classical music'?
is it merely rock music played on music that is traditionally associated with performance of mainstream 'classical music'?
are these people just ignorant of what 'classical music' really is?
and for that matter , what the **** is 'classical music' anyway?

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000050I48/102-1533096-6475355?v=glance

another example, a rock guitarist, composed a 'concerto' for electric guitar and orchestra in a quasi-baroque style, is this 'classical music'?

[mound]

that reminds me.. I ordered his transcription along time ago, never got it!!

is radiohead classical music? no, of course not. classical defines a period. Is O'rileys piano transcription classical music? No, for the same reason.

[stevie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music

see there are many definitions, not just the era in european music.

[brewtality]

YJM RULES!!!!! except that recording was somewhat dissapointing (though i haven't heard the whole thing)
btw which metallica songs were transcribed? I can't think of any that I would call classical no matter what instrument they were played on.

[mound]

metallica did that tour with the orchestra backing them a few years back.

[stevie]

metallica did that tour with the orchestra backing them a few years back.

thats not it, that was S&M, a collaboration with michael kamen(RIP) who wrote the equivelant of a movie soundtrack to their songs, it works tremendously alot of the time.

the ones for 4 cellos were some by the finnish cello-metal band 'apocalyptica'

[brewtality]

which songs?
I heard S & M it was alright but nothing special.

[stevie]

in my opinion S&M was very special, particularly the song 'one;, which on the original album had a thin sound, in this recording its truly grandiose and powerful.

just look up the 1st couple of apocalyptica albums on amazon, they are mostly metallica covers.

i thought fade to black was particularly effective.

[Jacey1973]

I love Radiohead they have been my favourite band for years. I especially loved their most recent album. I love how they are into every type of music, they're not afraid to experiment. I read somewhere that Jonny Greenwood's favourite "classical" piece of music is Messiaen's Turangalîla Symphony.

There is also a CD of Radiohead's music from "OK Computer" transcribed for string quartet (there's some samples here i think, i rather liked the Paranoid Android string quartet sample but then it is such an amazingly written song anyway - the other samples don't sound that impressive, although perhaps using a string quartet alone you are limited as to what you can do):

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005OW6Q/002-7359891-5317659?v=glance

Anyone got this album? I think there is already some lovely string writing in some places by the band on their original tracks anyway - like for example "Pyramid Song" from Amnesiac - with gorgeous sweeping strings near the end of the track.


and Jonny Greenwood had some music performed at the Barbican this year:

"Jonny To Premiere His First BBC Work in April
The Barbican lists the following on its website:

Jonny Greenwood, best known as the lead guitarist in Radiohead, stars in a new role this April with the BBC Concert Orchestra. Greenwood is the Orchestra's new Composer in Residence and this concert will be the first chapter in their three-year partnership. This special performance features the premiere of Jonny’s new work commissioned by BBC Radio 3, with music performed live by the BBC Concert Orchestra.

The work will premiere live Saturday, April 23 at 7:30pm at LSO St Luke’s. The site lists tickets as £12.50 / £15."


Can't wait for their next album if "Hail to the Thief" is anything to go by  (my 2nd favourite Radiohead album after "OK Computer" of course! )

[stevie]

i own the string quartet album, all in all good, but not essential unless youre already a big radiohead fan

perhaps surprisingly i thought the song that worked best was electioneering.

OK computer is also my favourite radiohead album

[Jacey1973]

i own the string quartet album, all in all good, but not essential unless youre already a big radiohead fan

perhaps surprisingly i thought the song that worked best was electioneering.

OK computer is also my favourite radiohead album

Yeah i was tempted to buy the string quartet album - but when looking in Virgin saw it was £15.99 i think and i couldn't afford to even buy food at the time!

I do usually buy all radiohead related stuff tho i'm pretty bad for that (t-shirts, live albums etc). They are so fantastic live though (saw them twice in Newport - Kid A tent tour and Cardiff - Hail to the Thief tour) it kinda makes you buy merchandise because you are so mesmorised after!

What's your favourite radiohead song Stevie? Mine would have to be Paranoid Android and about a million others! I had a B-sides fetish a couple of years ago too which involved me buying all the singles i could possibly find. They haven't half cost me alot of the years!

[pita bread]

On the topic of modern music transcriptions, I encourage all of you to check out "Reflections on Duke," the cd of Jean-Yves Thibaudet playing transcriptions of Duke Ellington's music.

I do usually buy all radiohead related stuff tho i'm pretty bad for that (t-shirts, live albums etc). They are so fantastic live though (saw them twice in Newport - Kid A tent tour and Cardiff - Hail to the Thief tour) it kinda makes you buy merchandise because you are so mesmorised after!

Maybe there's subliminal messages in Radiohead's music.

And sail us to the moon, sail us to the moon, buyourmerchandisebuyourmerchandise, sail us to the moon, sail us to the moon

[stevie]

i wouldnt pay that much for the quartet album, get it if its cheap somewhere.

my favourites-

1 - exit music for a film
2  karma police
3 - street spirit (fade out)
4 - climbing up the walls
5 - electioneering

there are MANY more...

and i especially love the song 'you' in o'riley's piano arrangement

[Jacey1973]

i wouldnt pay that much for the quartet album, get it if its cheap somewhere.

my favourites-

1 - exit music for a film
2  karma police
3 - street spirit (fade out)
4 - climbing up the walls
5 - electioneering

there are MANY more...

and i especially love the song 'you' in o'riley's piano arrangement

Oh i'd love to hear an arrangement of "You", it's such a great song.

[Siberian Husky]

lets take...fur elise....

if one were to play fur elise on piano..classical..yes..

take that same exact piece...play it for electric guitar..its a "rock version"

take that first fur elise theme and give it a syncopated backdrop beat..it can now have a "hip hop feel"...

take this same fur elise piece...monophonically divide it into several vocalists harmonising it at one...it now has a gregorian chant/"renaissance" type feel to it...


modulate it through computer programing..tweek the sound pitch and pace the piece faster with an electronically added echo..it will be the talk of the town in raves and clubs with this new "techno" feel...


grab different pitched drums of sizes and tones...use rhythems and patterns identical to fur elise and transcribe the music so that it prperly fits these toned drums...it now has an "African Cultured" feel to it...

transcribe the piece for the middle east's musical system and it will then have an "Indian" (pardon the labeling but you get the point) feel to it using their strings and timing...



now that i'v brought this to everyones attention...

does this make it bad?...im not going to take any side just yet?..but..is this genre modulation bad?..does it really not give the composer/songwriter/creater justice?...should we criticise this so passionately?...is this all the same piece?..or are they different pieces?...

[stevie]

just for you jenni (and any others who are interested..) :


https://s36.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3OCY159QSVCFS2ZG89J1MJIX39

theres the piano version of 'you', i think its awesome

(beware, i expect a favour in return )

[jeremyjchilds]

I really like the S+M songs, but Was I the only one who thought the orchestration of the (well...orchestra) was kind of weak???

[yamagal]

On a related note (no pun intended), from a Bjork fan...

Bjork's work is in the same musical genre as Radiohead's, or so I've read (I've not heard Radiohead's music).  Composer John Tavener said Bjork's "An Echo, A Stain", from the album Vespertine, is quite like Schubert in its evocation of mood.  I have also read of Bjork referred to as a "composer" rather than just a singer/songwriter.  She received a lot of classical training as a child -- works of dead white Euro males, mostly German -- but in her career has worked to create a unique Icelandic sound.

(P.S. I do know the html for the umlaut over the small o in Bjork, but don't know how to insert it in this format... sorry)

[prometheus]

Composers are people who write music (on paper). They don't perform the music themselves.


To me (european) classical music is composed art music in the european tradition, meaning focus on harmony, form and structure, performed with great skill.

Classical music in it's broad sense is always a sophisticated artform with a long tradition and development.

I don't see how Radiohead and Bjork have anything to do with this. Even when their music is transcribed and played as if it was classical music.

Yngwie Malmsteen is classical music, but not very good. I wonder if he actually knows about the intricacies of fugue, canon and conterpoint. He did start of this whole new trend in guitar playing and has the most amazing vibrato. But I think he is stuck in his own world. He has no perspective.

[Jacey1973]

just for you jenni (and any others who are interested..) :


https://s36.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3OCY159QSVCFS2ZG89J1MJIX39

theres the piano version of 'you', i think its awesome

Oh thanks very much! *Is excited*

(beware, i expect a favour in return )

Lol...and what might that be?!

https://www.truelovewaits.cc/

listen to the streaming tracks on there, with the richness of texture and interesting harmony and striking melodies, youd think you were listening to some modern jazz pianist, or a modern 'classical' composer's work.

I just listened to the "You" track. I can see what you mean now. It sounds like quite challenging piano music. I would love to get this album.

On a related note (no pun intended), from a Bjork fan...

Bjork's work is in the same musical genre as Radiohead's, or so I've read (I've not heard Radiohead's music).  Composer John Tavener said Bjork's "An Echo, A Stain", from the album Vespertine, is quite like Schubert in its evocation of mood.  I have also read of Bjork referred to as a "composer" rather than just a singer/songwriter.  She received a lot of classical training as a child -- works of dead white Euro males, mostly German -- but in her career has worked to create a unique Icelandic sound.

(P.S. I do know the html for the umlaut over the small o in Bjork, but don't know how to insert it in this format... sorry)

Oh i absolutely adore Bjork too. There is many classical or perhaps orchestral/choral influences in her music i think. I can't remember the name of the Bjork song i'm thinking of but it ends with use of loads or voices - choirs singing up and down a scale and it has always reminded me of the ending of Britten's War Requiem (with the use of all instrumental/choral resources - the bit just before the final a cappella main choir "Requiem" ending - the bit used to open the whole Requiem).

Bjork writes such interesting music and she's not afraid of any style - very much like radiohead. I feel very inspired by her music even though i perform primarily classical music.

Anyone ever heard the duet of Bjork and Thom Yorke (of Radiohead) - used on her "Dancer in the Dark" film soundtrack album?

[will]

Anyone ever heard the duet of Bjork and Thom Yorke (of Radiohead) - used on her "Dancer in the Dark" film soundtrack album?

Yeah. Saw the clip too. Nothing special compared to their other works.

Has anyone heard O'Riley's 'Paranoid Android'? I haven't, but would like to hear how he interprets the blistering guitar solos in that piece.

[yamagal]

Oh i absolutely adore Bjork too. There is many classical or perhaps orchestral/choral influences in her music i think. I can't remember the name of the Bjork song i'm thinking of but it ends with use of loads or voices - choirs singing up and down a scale and it has always reminded me of the ending of Britten's War Requiem (with the use of all instrumental/choral resources - the bit just before the final a cappella main choir "Requiem" ending - the bit used to open the whole Requiem).

Bjork writes such interesting music and she's not afraid of any style - very much like radiohead. I feel very inspired by her music even though i perform primarily classical music.

Anyone ever heard the duet of Bjork and Thom Yorke (of Radiohead) - used on her "Dancer in the Dark" film soundtrack album?

Cool, another Bjork fan!     Yes, I have heard that duet - musically it's okay, but the lyrics are what really make that song.

IKWYM about her music being inspiring.  It is cutting edge, and personal and universal at the same time.  And her voice - there is nothing like it.  It sounds totally untrained, yet she has great vocal control. 

The song you are thinking of with the choir in bg might be "Undo" (Vespertine).  It might also be "Vokuro" (Medulla). 

Have you heard her latest album (Medulla)?  The "Who Is It" remixes are excellent - esp the bell choir one. 

And she actually does play keyboards, so this (sub)thread does belong in PF! 

[stevie]

Yeah. Saw the clip too. Nothing special compared to their other works.

Has anyone heard O'Riley's 'Paranoid Android'? I haven't, but would like to hear how he interprets the blistering guitar solos in that piece.

its not on his CD, where is it available if it exists?

[will]

its not on his CD, where is it available if it exists?

Hold Me to This: Christopher O'Riley Plays Radiohead

Amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007TFI4W/qid=1123049178/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/103-8942939-2371851

Editor says 'His "Paranoid Android" is like Conlon Nancarrow going boogie-woogie one moment and painfully, sweetly rhapsodic the next'.

You can listen to a sample of Paranoid Android there but only the "What's that?...When I am King" part.

[leahcim]

Wasn't there some guy who was going to do Steve Vai stuff on the piano in a similar vein to this?

[prometheus]

Isn't that impossible? Most of Vai's tricks come from the vibrato bar and his electronics.

[Jacey1973]

Cool, another Bjork fan!     Yes, I have heard that duet - musically it's okay, but the lyrics are what really make that song.

IKWYM about her music being inspiring.  It is cutting edge, and personal and universal at the same time.  And her voice - there is nothing like it.  It sounds totally untrained, yet she has great vocal control. 

The song you are thinking of with the choir in bg might be "Undo" (Vespertine).  It might also be "Vokuro" (Medulla). 

Have you heard her latest album (Medulla)?  The "Who Is It" remixes are excellent - esp the bell choir one. 

And she actually does play keyboards, so this (sub)thread does belong in PF! 

Oh is the new album the one that uses only voices? I haven't got it but i saw Bjork perfrorm one of her new songs a while back on TV and really liked it, must give it a listen.

My ex-boyfriend used to say Bjork's voice sounded like a car alarm (hence the "ex" bit...) but i adore her voice. It is so different with so much natural emotion - i love the bit when she sings high up towards the end of "Bachelorate".

[yamagal]

Oh is the new album the one that uses only voices?

Yes, it is almost exclusively voices.  One or two tracks have a little bit of instrumentation on them.  The most out-there track has some piano on it.

My ex-boyfriend used to say Bjork's voice sounded like a car alarm (hence the "ex" bit...) but i adore her voice. It is so different with so much natural emotion - i love the bit when she sings high up towards the end of "Bachelorate".

I have noticed that she is more careful with her voice than she used to be, which I suppose is a good thing.  But sometimes I miss the no-holds-barred vocal gymnastics of her earlier work. 

Have you ever gotten to see her live?  I haven't yet, but hope to someday.

[leahcim]

Isn't that impossible?

For the sound, yes [it doesn't sound like Vai, it sounds like a piano] but for the music, he's done it which suggests it is

Mike Keneally - who's played with Zappa too.

I googled and found a live version of Salamander... from flexible, not a very good recording, but it sounded better than the reverse usually does - i.e a piano / symphony orchestra piece [or for YJM, fast harmonic minor arpeggios and scale runs] reduced to one-note-at-a-time distorted guitar.

[prometheus]

You can't do a vibrato on piano.

[leahcim]

You can't do a vibrato on piano.

Yep, but I can't see where I suggested otherwise? To clarify - you said "Isn't that impossible?" so a reply of "Yes" meant 'Yes, it is impossible" from the pov of the sound, the vibrato and effects you mentioned, obviously aren't there - as I said, it sounds like a piano.

So obviously they aren't the same - no more than pieces like Beethoven's 5th,  Danse Macabre, Chopin's piano concerto etc etc for solo piano are - nevertheless piano interpretations of Steve Vai's music aren't impossible as their existence demonstrates

[Tash]

funny thing, we had a lecture on the influence of baroque music on 20th century music yesterday, and it opened with us learning that radiohead had ripped off chopin's prelude no.4 in one of their songs, can't remember what it's called but it's apparently in baz luhrmann's romeo and juliet movie. like the chord structure and melody is the same, yet they failed to acknowledge chopin even as an influence on the song. which is sad cos whilst chopin got very little money from his preludes radiohead's off letting people use their song for large sums of money, and they didn't even properly write it!
so that's my one comment on radiohead...

[leahcim]

Yep, it's not just them either, some guy the other day was touting a CD full of stuff, it was note for note Chopin!

[arensky]

Didn't read what anyone else thought because I have to go to sleep, have to write quiz in the morning....but yes, it is now!