I'm trying to increase my memorization skills... what to do, what to learn?

[musicsdarkangel]

I have been reading many books related to piano lately, and have noticed that a few times it has been mentioned that a pianist should learn as much repitoire as they can when young (a age mentioned is before 20), because it sticks in the memory more easily.  SO, this is what I am going to attempt...........

I want to make a goal of some sort, like learning a Beethoven sonata and Chopin etude every 3 weeks, which seems hard for me now, but so did learning the Rachmaninoff Rhapsody (I've realized that it isn't as much of a challenge as I had thought).


I have realized that I improve when I take on huge challenges, so I am thinking about attempting something relatively tough (a learning plan, if you will).


What repitoire is good for enhancing memorization skills? 

Any ideas on ridiculous challenges?

My issue: I need a good set of repitoire to learn, or a general guideline (etude + P+F per week, or a sonata per 3 weeks etc) which will help my technique, AND memorization. 

Ideas?

What has helped you?

DISCUSS!


P.S. I want to attempt large works, but most of the large works I see seem to be something meant to be played when I am older and more mature (Dante Sonata, B minor, Rach 2nd sonata, Gaspard de la Nuit, etc.)

P.P.S. I have played around 9 Chopin etudes, Bach preludes + fugues (2 + 3 part inventions), 3 Beethoven sonatas, no Ravel, no Debussy, no Schumann, 2 Mozart sonatas, and a bunch of other stuff.  I just started really practicing more seriously this last year, so I can take on challenges.  I definitely do have gaps in repitoire.

[xvimbi]

I want to attempt large works, but most of the large works I see seem to be something meant to be played when I am older and more mature (Dante Sonata, B minor, Rach 2nd sonata, Gaspard de la Nuit, etc.)

You may also realize, when you are older and more mature, that this memorization idea of yours is not quite that brilliant. I would not start to memorize and play pieces just for the sake of memorization (if you want a challenge, memorize Sorabji's Opus clavicembalisticum). Instead, make a list of all the pieces that you want to play, because they interest you from a musical perspective, and then learn those. It is true, apparently, that pieces memorized when young, stick longer, but those pieces that your are really interested in, and where you therefore pay extra attention, will really stick.

[stevie]

the book wasnt by charles rosen was it?

i read the same thng, he says he learnt the appassionata as a teen, and since then i has been impossible to forget.

yes, memory declines with age, and its best to commit to memory as much as possible, as early as possible, but dont neglect technique and other important things to develop at the start too..

[musicsdarkangel]

You may also realize, when you are older and more mature, that this memorization idea of yours is not quite that brilliant. I would not start to memorize and play pieces just for the sake of memorization (if you want a challenge, memorize Sorabji's Opus clavicembalisticum). Instead, make a list of all the pieces that you want to play, because they interest you from a musical perspective, and then learn those. It is true, apparently, that pieces memorized when young, stick longer, but those pieces that your are really interested in, and where you therefore pay extra attention, will really stick.

You are definitely correct.

Here's the thing though, I like the majority of the Beethoven sonatas, as well as the majority (if not all) of the Chopin etudes.

I also like most Ravel, Bach, etc.

I don't exactly have one hit wonders, so really anything goes.

hehe, I had a feeling someone would suggest Sorabji, but the Opus Cemballisticum is beyond me and I don't like it as much as his transcendental etudes.

[musicsdarkangel]

applepie.

[musicsdarkangel]

..............

[jeremyjchilds]

About more challanging repertiore to memorize..

I usually find counterpoint difficult.

If you want a head start on memorizing, start memorizina the dates of all the composers and all thier compositions...at least you will ace history exams.

[nanabush]

What helped me memorize my repertoire for grade 9 and 10 rcm was to play a Bach P/F. 

[musicsdarkangel]

ahhh, yes.


Bach is pretty much some of the hardest music to memorize.


Great ideas.

But rather than small, concentrated memorizing, I'm thinking of doing large works.

Do you think that the Bach would help with that?

[jazzyprof]

But rather than small, concentrated memorizing, I'm thinking of doing large works.

Think of a large work as many small works strung together.  Isolate small thematic sections and treat them as "works".  These sections could be as small as several bars or as large as a movement (if it's not too big a movement).  Learn a thematic section plus a small (one bar) connector that glues it to the next section.  Keep reviewing previously learnt sections as you add new ones. 

[bernhard]

xvimbi has really given you the best advice. Memory is intimately related to meaning and interest, so it is almost impossible to memorise something that is (for you) meaningless, or something you have no interest on. These are the real variables, not age (and the reason children seem to be able to memorise with more facility is related to it).

Also, have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2083.msg17227.html#msg17227
(the basic theory)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3858.msg34936.html#msg34936
(the basics – includes the history of the Art of memory)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7399.msg74758.html#msg74758
(the details of the process using “dozen a day” as an example)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4321.msg40678.html#msg40678
(reply #22)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Skeptopotamus]

tchaikovsky-pletnev concert suite from the ballet "nutcracker"

[musicsdarkangel]

xvimbi has really given you the best advice. Memory is intimately related to meaning and interest, so it is almost impossible to memorise something that is (for you) meaningless, or something you have no interest on. These are the real variables, not age (and the reason children seem to be able to memorise with more facility is related to it).

Also, have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2083.msg17227.html#msg17227
(the basic theory)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3858.msg34936.html#msg34936
(the basics – includes the history of the Art of memory)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7399.msg74758.html#msg74758
(the details of the process using “dozen a day” as an example)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4321.msg40678.html#msg40678
(reply #22)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

thanks,

You never fail!

[bernhard]

thanks,

You are welcome

You never fail!

(I wouldn't go so far... )

[patteeheeadidas]

repetition.