perfect pitch

[gruffalo]

perfect pitch gets me through those aural and listening tests pretty easy 

[perfect_pitch]

It is a skill and no one can deny that. If they do, then they're just ignorant (or pissed off the fact that they don't have it).... I'm sorry to say that.... but it's true.

I'm not saying that everyone SHOULD have perfect pitch, but it helps...

But Perfect Pitch (or Relative pitch I suppose) is a skill. It makes you a better rounded musician and a better learner. I can listen to a Mozart Concerto and hear the chordal harmony and understand why he went to those chords.

Aural is very undervalued in todays society and it ticks me off.

[gaer]

I think the pitch thing is a helpful one, but not a guarantee-- and there are so many amazing people without it. 

I also liked your post very much. I'd like to add my personal experience to show why "perfect pitch" can be a gigantic pain.

Consider, for a moment, those who play instruments that play in many keys. An excellent example is trumpet, which may be in Bb, C, D, Eb and so on.

I taught brass for many years, fairly sucessfully, I think. I learned on a "concert pitch instrument". Baritone (euphonium) is a concert pitch instrument when read in bass clef but is a transposing instrument, when using treble clef. In order to learn to read either part, or teach students reading either clef, I had to train myself to transpose down a whole step. So when I saw a C, I simply heard it in my mind as a Bb, associated the fingering I had learned, and there was no problem. Horn was not harder. When you depress the thumb on a "double horn", it switches to the shorter tubing, and the fingers then match that of Bb bass (tuba), baritone, Bb trumpet, etc. But in order to read the music, I had to learn to transpose in my head, since no matter what I did I always heard the concert pitch and immediately associated the fingering that goes to that pitch. For F horn, I still transposed to concert pitch then memorized a new set of fingerings.

But when I hit a C trumpet part, I was screwed up. I can't play it. The problem is that it is a concert pitch instrument (anything that is in "C") means no problem, you hear what you see. But there is a nasty catch. All the fingerings are off a whole step. Suddenly a concert C (and all it's harmonics) are played with no valves down), and the moment I heard the pitch, my fingers would automatically grab for 13 or 1st valve, the fingerings "D" on Bb trumpet, which is actually "C". I could teach the music—no problem there—and the fingerings were no problem, also a cinch.

I couldn't play it.

Now, think of what happens to sax players when they move from Bb to Eb, alto to tenor, for example. What is perfect pitch going to do for them? It's going to be crippling.

I would trade very reliable relative pitch for perfect pitch in some situations, while I find it extremely helpful in others. So it's a mixed blessing for me.

Do any of the rest of you feel the same way?

Gary

[gruffalo]

Well gaer, i sang in a choir for 7 years. If you dont know already, the conductor or choirmaster my sometimes choose (generally only done in church music) to go up or down a semitone or tone. at first this was an absolute pain (first came across the problem when i was about because for others it didnt made a difference, but when you read the music and know which notes you are singing its very difficult, but i just got used to it. so im sure they can do the same with brass instruments.

[gaer]

Well gaer, i sang in a choir for 7 years. If you dont know already, the conductor or choirmaster my sometimes choose (generally only done in church music) to go up or down a semitone or tone. at first this was an absolute pain (first came across the problem when i was about because for others it didnt made a difference, but when you read the music and know which notes you are singing its very difficult, but i just got used to it. so im sure they can do the same with brass instruments.

I understand what you are saying, and yes, I'm aware of choirs transposing up or down, just as you mentioned.

But this is not quite the same as having an absolute link built up in your mind between a pitch and something you have to press. For instance, concert Bb is open on tuba (Bb, sometimes written BBb), baritone (or euphonium) Bb horn and Bb trumpet. These are the standard instruments in band and orchestra, although horn players flip from F horn to Bb horn. So the fingerings on F horn, same pitch are different. However, even trombone works the same way, with the 7 standard positions lining up with valve combinations.

Now, if you pick up a C trumpet, when you blow a written C, suddenly that is what you get. You have no valves down, and your embouchure is fighting against the fingering. You want to hear Bb and it's overtones because the moment you lift all your fingers, concert C with no valves is just WRONG. So wrong, I can't tell you awful it feels. But people with relative pitch blow a written C, no valves, and accept the pitch produced as the tonal center for whatever pitched instrument the are playing. So, Eb trumpet music says C, but when you play the note you see, out comes an Eb.

I still think that perfect pitch, as it is normally defined, is a detriment, not an advantage for sax players and other players who have to move back and forth from one key to another without changing the notation of the pitches or the fingerings that go with them.

Gary

[whynot]

Gaer:  yes, I certainly see your point.  I've played several transposing instruments over the years, and it was always hell on wheels getting started.  At first I transposed so my brain wouldn't explode from the gap between seeing and hearing.  But then my brain threatened to explode from all the transposing.  After a while, I had to flip a mental switch.  I think I turn the written notes into a "moveable do" idea, not thinking of solfegge (sp?) literally, but the idea of thinking within a scale and staying very connected with the tonic (adding gin...).  I try to think and play within the system of that particular scale, but not to assign it a name, and not to expect to hear the written pitches as they would sound on a piano, but rather as a guide to the shape of the music.  I don't know if I'm explaining this very well, or if it even matters!  I do the same thing when I read old clefs.  I have almost no experience with them, and they look crazy until I flip my little switch.  Then they make sense.  As long as I don't try to name the notes! which I don't normally do anyway.

At this point, I'm mainly writing to avoid practicing.  But I just ran into my piano teacher and feel inspired, so I'll go have at it.  Cheers, everyone. 
       

[gaer]

Gaer:  yes, I certainly see your point.  I've played several transposing instruments over the years, and it was always hell on wheels getting started.  At first I transposed so my brain wouldn't explode from the gap between seeing and hearing.  But then my brain threatened to explode from all the transposing.  After a while, I had to flip a mental switch. 

This is EXACTLY what some find sax players have told me. In fact, it is almost as if they have "movable perfect pitch". In other words, once they know where C is, they are "set in that system". If, for instance, you handed such a player an alto or tenor sax that mysteriously played a 1/2 step sharp or flat, even if in tune with itself (actually an impossible thing), I suspect they would be totally thrown off.

Think of trumpet players who move from a Bb to an Eb trumpet. That's where the switch flips. I don't have that switch. I suspect that the piano actually KILLS such a switch. Those of us who have an incredibly strong link between each key on the piano and what it should sound like have a very powerful and useful ability, I think, for playing the piano. So we tend to feel that this is a gift, pure and simple. I don't agree. It is for piano. I've never understood how orchestral conductors can "hear" the score with all those transposing instruments.

I think I turn the written notes into a "moveable do" idea, not thinking of solfegge (sp?) literally, but the idea of thinking within a scale and staying very connected with the tonic (adding gin...).  I try to think and play within the system of that particular scale, but not to assign it a name, and not to expect to hear the written pitches as they would sound on a piano, but rather as a guide to the shape of the music.  I don't know if I'm explaining this very well, or if it even matters! 

It may not matter, but it's exactly what other people have described to me. Question: what would happen to you on a transposing midi keyboard. Could you play something you have memorized if the key were transposed up or down a step? Because I can't. It totally short-circuits my ear. I can read music that way, although it is a constant jolt.

I do the same thing when I read old clefs.  I have almost no experience with them, and they look crazy until I flip my little switch.  Then they make sense.  As long as I don't try to name the notes! which I don't normally do anyway.

I transpose them, the ones I know. For instance, trombone often uses tenor clef. So I use the same "down a step" technique I use for reading Bb trumpet (which is transposed up a step), but with trumpet I fully transpose, key too, whereas with tenor clef I am doing a diatonic transposition, since the key signature does not change.

Good luck with your practicing. I already did mine.

Gary

[da jake]

LOL. This perfect pitch guy reminds me of those high IQ snobs. They purportedly have more  natural talent but end up accomplishing roughly the same as people who are motivated and have above-average intelligence. Prove me wrong.

You don't have to be a genius to be great at what you do. You don't need perfect pitch to be a great pianist.

[gaer]

Again, back to my teacher. He's below the level of recording contract pianists and doesn't have the drive to prepare for hours a day for the competitions, but  can do pretty much anything on the piano that he wants. 

He's probably said that to you. Sounds like a humble guy. In fact, he many play some music as well or better than than what you hear on many recordings. The fact that he is unable or unwilling to do this under pressure means nothing. We equate being "professional" with getting paid. Actually, the only thing it means to get paid for playing is that—well—you found a way to talk someone into paying you.

He says he doesn't have perfect pitch, but he is  still able to explain to me the harmony of anything,  improvise phenomenally, transpose, sightread with astonishing speed and accuracy etc.

I have it. The people I work with do not. It doesn't make me better than the others in any way. To me its just a quirky ability that helps at times and gets in my way at others.

LOL. This perfect pitch guy reminds me of those high IQ snobs. They purportedly have more  natural talent but end up accomplishing roughly the same as people who are motivated and have above-average intelligence.

You don't have to be a genius to be great at what you do. You don't need perfect pitch to be a great pianist.

It's all about how you define "genius". It's an overused word. Quite obviously there is something very rare that people possess who play in a way that makes the rest of us listen and care. How you define that is irrelevant. Something special is going on!

Gary

[perfect_pitch]

LOL. This perfect pitch guy reminds me of those high IQ snobs. They purportedly have more  natural talent but end up accomplishing roughly the same as people who are motivated and have above-average intelligence. Prove me wrong.

You don't have to be a genius to be great at what you do. You don't need perfect pitch to be a great pianist.

Well you IDIOT!!! I said IT HELPED if you had Perfect Pitch, and you can learn a lot faster... I said it was LACKING IN TODAYS PIANISTS!!!!!

You may want to read the whole thread before you answer. And I take offence to the term snob, you pr**k!!

[brewtality]

You may want to read the whole thread before you answer. And I take offence to the term snob, you pr**k!!

lol, looks like Jake struck a nerve. I think its hypocritical of you to take expection to being called a snob only to insult jake in cruder terms. Btw, how do you know that AP is lacking in today's pianists? do you have any empirical evidence to support this statement?

[gruffalo]

i cant forward my debate with you gaer because i havent actually gone and learnt a brass instrument. i know you say you have dealt with perfect pitch players on brass instruments but sureley someone must have done it and im sure it can be done.

[da jake]

Thanks for the response, gaer.

@perfect pitch: yeah, I was being a bit of a prick to you, but this is the internet, and  anonymity enourages me to say what I honestly feel. It's not like you didn't deserve it though - quite a bit of what your post, heck even your NAME, is shameless bragging followed by rationalization of the bragging in a patronizing tone. Just how I perceive it.

I didn't call you a snob, btw. I compared you to the "high IQ people" of the internet, who despite their brilliance can't seem to master HTML.  Not that you're deficient in any way (that I know of), just thinking that you're not the hot sh*t that you may have us think.

There's also this feeling that I get, despite claims made by the anonymous internet people,  that at the end of the day, humble musicians like my teacher will still be the better pianists.  He's not asking Bernhard for his wisdom on internet message boards and silly chats, he's growing on the wisdom and knowledge gained from his years as a pianist at the conservatory and contact with other excellent musicians.  Also, he doesn't have the absurd ego to go on the internet and say how easy it is for him to memorize pieces, identify chords or perform fast and accurate chromatic scales or whatever. 

PF is a diversion - and a place for pianists to chat and have fun, discuss etc. - not really for them to grow as musicians. If you're seriously learning to play piano from these message boards, you're in deep trouble.

[perfect_pitch]

lol, looks like Jake struck a nerve. I think its hypocritical of you to take expection to being called a snob only to insult jake in cruder terms. Btw, how do you know that AP is lacking in today's pianists? do you have any empirical evidence to support this statement?

The University I go to... Here's the numbers.

300 Musicians in University, including Singers, String Players, Piano Players and Percussion and everything else...
2 People have Relative Pitch
1 Person has Perfect Pitch

Meaning 297 musicians out of 300 (99%) couldn't tell you a simple interval, who have all been playing for more than a decade.

Shocking huh??? Thats what I think is disgusting...

[da jake]

You don't need perfect pitch to tell intervals! Education and skill suffices. Perfect pitch certainly helps.

PS: where do those numbers come from? Up your ass?

[brewtality]

The University I go to... Here's the numbers.

300 Musicians in University, including Singers, String Players, Piano Players and Percussion and everything else...
2 People have Relative Pitch
1 Person has Perfect Pitch

Meaning 297 musicians out of 300 (99%) couldn't tell you a simple interval, who have all been playing for more than a decade.

Shocking huh??? Thats what I think is disgusting...

If its true then it is surprising, especially the relative pitch standard. I'm dumbfounded as to how string players and singers in particular can survive without RP.
What is the general standard of the music students at your university? if it considered to be amongst the best schools in the country? don't they teach ear-training classes?
I'm not sure whether this can be taken as the norm, I would think that most of today's young piano prodigies would at least have good relative pitch and more than likely have AP as well.

[gaer]

i cant forward my debate with you gaer because i havent actually gone and learnt a brass instrument. i know you say you have dealt with perfect pitch players on brass instruments but sureley someone must have done it and im sure it can be done.

I'm not sure what you mean by "it can be done". I'm not sure what "it" is. However, if we took the time to ask fine instrumentalists how they keep track of pitch, how they hear, how they relate pitches, even then the answers might not be very satisfactory. Some of the people I've asked have merely shrugged their shoulders and said, "I just do it.".

But I do have a theory. It's only a theory, at best, and feel free to shoot it down. I think that how we hear relates the instruments we play, most of all to our primary instrument.

In all the theory classes I took, singers were weakest. Everyone joked about how the "could not hear", but this is totally unfair. Vocalists do not have something to link pitches to. To say that a singer who can't sightsing to save his or her life has a poor pitch sense does not necessarily make any sense. I would say that a singer who sings very well in tune has the most highly developed pitch sense of all of us, in a way, since he or she gets no help. Even on brass, which in the higher registers is almost totally controlled by the embouchure, you still land on one note or another. Trumpet, for instance, has high Bb, high C and high D all with open. Only under the rarest circumstances would you PLAY a high Bb with open, since it's going to be about 31 cents flat, but that's not the point. If you aim for a high C, you have a very good chance of hitting the wrong note, either a step low or a step high, if the lips are not set perfectly, even if you HEAR the note perfectly in your head. This problem is even worse on horn because the partials or overtones are closer together, and for all practical purposes you can hit just about any pitch with any fingering up very high, although many will be very out of tune. Ever wonder why horn players miss more notes than any other brass instrument? That's why.

Now, I've met SO many find brass players who nailed every note just as well as I could who told me, point blank, that they couldn't prehear a pitch to save their lives. I always wondered how they found the first pitch in any section, since the rest relate relatively, so I suspect some amount of absolute pitch sense is operating on a subconcious level.

I just think we don't know very much about how people hear. Even the term "perfect pitch" is incredibly misleading, since different people mean different things. How perfect is perfect? What is the minimum error plus or minus, in cents, that people can hear? Many problems have already been mentioned in this thread.

And sightsinging courses—how much do they help? Can they help everyone? What works best for most people? Syllables? Fixed do? Movable do? If your a pianist, what about just visualizing the keys themselves, bypassing any other system?

These are the kinds of things I'd like to hear discussed. I don't think we will discover many answers, but we sure as heck should be able to come up some very interesting questions, and asking questions is the first step towards deeper understanding.

Gary

[perfect_pitch]

You don't need perfect pitch to tell intervals! Education and skill suffices. Perfect pitch certainly helps.

PS: where do those numbers come from? Up your ass?

No... from up yours....

Seriously... Thats pretty much the truth. And when I talk about recognising intervals... I'm not talking about...

'What interval is this (plays 2 notes seperately)...
'ummmmm... doh so, do lah, no thats not it, do low....  Is that is???

I mean people who know instantly the intervals. The Kodaly Method focuses on Interval recognition to the point where 9 year olds can do this instantly.

[rob47]

Well you IDIOT!!! I said IT HELPED if you had Perfect Pitch, and you can learn a lot faster... I said it was LACKING IN TODAYS PIANISTS!!!!!

You may want to read the whole thread before you answer. And I take offence to the term snob, you pr**k!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA that reminds me of adam sandler getting mad in the wedding singer when he's like " again, things that could hAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION YESTERDAY!!" hahah *.

 
297 out of 300 musicians at university level having no sense of pitch is a little high, no? I'd never have believed it if I hadn't read your post myself. Are you a taecher for sightsinging or dictation or something? How did you get those statistics?

And yes, to name yourself perfect_pitch and always dive into conversations about how you are benefitting from it, is possibly not cocky or snobby, but it is definitely....something.

Well you IDIOT!!! I said IT HELPED if you had Perfect Pitch, and you can learn a lot faster... I said it was LACKING IN TODAYS PIANISTS!!!!!

You may want to read the whole thread before you answer. And I take offence to the term snob, you pr**k!!

[da jake]

The statistics are clearly made up.

Hey perfect_pitch: so if you were born with perfect pitch and all that, do you often impress people by playing any piece they request? What repertoire are you working on?  Are you able to improvise well?

[perfect_pitch]

Hell yes. I remember one person asked me to play Evanescence 'My Immortal' on the PIano once... I hadn't heard it at the time, so someone played it to me on their MP3 player.

Hopped straight up to the Piano and played it for them. It's great. I did the same with a Delta Goodrem Song... the one where the chorus is in a minor, and she has a little Piano cadenza interlude.

It's great.

[da jake]

I am in awe.

[rob47]

Do you think if someone playd you , say, "Gigue" by Arthur Vincet Lourie you'd be able to 'hop straight up to the piano' and play it?

Cuz you can apply your perfect pitch to more than just played out cheesy chord progressions, although it requires more brain power.

[da jake]

My teacher can 'fake' his way through almost any piece he's heard a number of times.

So if you said, "know Scarbo?", he'd just start playing it, and be all like "ohh and it has this one part...", then start playing whatever part he was thinking about. Obviously he can't play vast sections, or with great accuracy, but it's incredible skill to be able to do that.

But yeah, throwing a few chords together...that's a one in a million talent. you should be very proud.

[thierry13]

Do you think if someone playd you , say, "Gigue" by Arthur Vincet Lourie you'd be able to 'hop straight up to the piano' and play it?

Cuz you can apply your perfect pitch to more than just played out cheesy chord progressions, although it requires more brain power.

If he has good enough technic, I'm sure he could. Perfect pitch can be amazing on some people.

[perfect_pitch]

Do you think if someone playd you , say, "Gigue" by Arthur Vincet Lourie you'd be able to 'hop straight up to the piano' and play it?

Cuz you can apply your perfect pitch to more than just played out cheesy chord progressions, although it requires more brain power.

I should be able to. I take classical pieces like Bach Preludes and sing them to sol-fah on the spot, I can sight sing instantly, no matter what... (I just don't have a very good singing voice...  ) And I transcribe pieces for FUN!!! I love doing it, just because I can. I probably could, provided the piece doesn't exceed my skill at Performance right now... (Eg. I can play a couple of Liszt HR's, but I certainly couldn't play Parts of Rachmaninoff 3rd Piano Concerto, only cause my hands can't keep up with my brain. To commit a piece to memory is as easy as cheese, but getting your hands to do it, is slightly more complicated.

To be able to listen to a piece and to be able to play it back I think is an impressive skill that helps improve memory work as well as Aural Dictation. Thats why I love the Kodaly Method. God Bless that man.

[gruffalo]

perfect_pitch i have perfect pitch aswell, but you really throw yourself around way too much. dont abuse the fact that you have it to prove that people with PP are more well rounded musicians. there are more better pianists without PP than with. as for singing, anyone with perfect pitch can sight sing on the spot. i passed my grade 8 singing at 12 just by quickly memorizing the notes and words but i could perform it straight away had the exam not forced you to sing without music.

[perfect_pitch]

OK. I didn't mean to sound like a pompous pr!ck... but It is really brilliant in being able to listen to a piece and immediately recognise the underlying harmony. People like me and you gruffalo can listen to music in a way no one else can.

[da jake]

OK. I didn't mean to sound like a pompous pr!ck... but It is really brilliant in being able to listen to a piece and immediately recognise the underlying harmony. People like me and you gruffalo can listen to music in a way no one else can.

Do you think people without perfect pitch are unable to "recognise the underlying harmony" of a piece. Give me a break.

[lombardian]

I can conclude by the previous post by "perfect_pitch" that A.) He doesn't have perfect pitch, or B.) He has perfect pitch but is a horrible, lousy, second rate musician. Either way, this revelation has got to come as a blow to his ego. Sorry man, I know its hard wanting to be something your aren't. Really I do...

[gruffalo]

OK. I didn't mean to sound like a pompous pr!ck... but It is really brilliant in being able to listen to a piece and immediately recognise the underlying harmony. People like me and you gruffalo can listen to music in a way no one else can.

thanks for not taking what i said badly. i know where your coming from, because i do not know what i would do without PP.

[thierry13]

Do you think people without perfect pitch are unable to "recognise the underlying harmony" of a piece. Give me a break.

Could you write a complete orchestral score of say 20 instruments, without any errors, at first listen? That's what he's talking about.

[bearzinthehood]

I don't know if I am able to have perfect pitch or not.  I can tune up a completely detuned guitar perfectly without any reference, but I don't know if this is also just a factor of "feeling" the tension on the tuners and the tension on the string as well as the pitch itself.  I certainly can't name a note that I hear randomly.

At age 23 though I don't think I really have much more potential to develop better pitch recognition though.

[gruffalo]

ok heres how to tell if you have it.
first of all i need to know if you know the names of notes in general. lets say the notes in the instruments in the key of C. do you know which keys on the piano are which notes. do you know the notes of the scale in C? if so i should be able to sing a note or play a note to you on the piano and you should be able to tell me straight away without thinking that hard, what that note is. if you can get someone with experience in singing or piano to test you that would be a good idea. if you dont recognise the note within a split second, then you dont have perfect pitch.

[xvimbi]

ok heres how to tell if you have it.

https://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/ppstudy.html

[bearzinthehood]

I am certainly positive that I do not have perfect pitch as I have never trained for it or even thought about it really.  The question is, given the fact that I have played the piano from age 5 and that I have a limited ability to discern correct pitches without reference and without prior training, is it possible or even worthwhile at this age to attempt to train such a skill.

[gruffalo]

what you have is relative pitch. i think you can train to obtain someting really good but its sad that people can call it perfect pitch. i think perfect pitch is the term for the people who are born with it. thats my opinion.

[thierry13]

what you have is relative pitch. i think you can train to obtain someting really good but its sad that people can call it perfect pitch. i think perfect pitch is the term for the people who are born with it. thats my opinion.

That's not your opinion. It is a fact.

[perfect_pitch]

Wait a minute, does it honestly matter if someone is born with it??? If a person has (perfect) pitch, whether they were born with it or whether they accumalated it later should be exactly the same. They have (perfect) pitch...

Shouldn't it??? 

[gruffalo]

accumulated is different to being trained. im talking about those who get trained to have perfect pitch. if they have been learning music for a while and dont recognise it, but then later on someone helps them and they learn it, i dont thin kthat is perfect pitch. i believe perfect pitch should be natural not trained.

[lombardian]

Well I don't think it really matter either...To be honest, i just noticed that i could start to hear "colors" of various notes when i first started playing (i remember E was the first one) and it gradually accumalated...I don't think the definition of perfect pitch should be as strict as you seem to think, gruffalo...If you can name/sing any note you want, then its perfect pitch. lets not split hairs here...Also, lets remember, as perfect_pitch implied, theres probably a continuum; it doesn have to be the "best" type to be considered perfect pitch

[bearzinthehood]

An interesting little experiment I've been playing around with for a few days.  Basically, after not listening to or playing any music for a while, I've been trying to think about what an E sounds like and then sing it.  After singing it when I compare with the E string on my tuned guitar I find that I am always correct.  I suppose this is promising, how would I go about expanding my vocabulary?

[rob47]

Dear Rob,

Congratulations your scores on our tone identification test meet the stringent criteria we have established for absolute (perfect) pitch (AP) ability.  Specifically, your score on the pure tone test of 26.5 exceeds our cutoff of 24.5 points and your score on the piano tone test score of 34.75 exceeds our cutoff of 27.8.

The goal of this study is to determine the genetic basis of absolute pitch and to this end we are attempting to identify families with more than one member with this remarkable ability.  I understand, as far as you know, there are no others with perfect pitch in your family.

By interviewing families with multiple AP possessors, we have noticed that many individuals with this ability fall into particular ethnic categories.  This information can be extremely valuable as we try to narrow down the "perfect pitch" gene to a particular region on the human chromosomes.

We recognize that describing ethnic background may be controversial and may be uncomfortable for you, and you are free to not answer this email.

However, genetic studies such as ours benefit tremendously from this type of information.  If you feel comfortable sharing this part of your personal history please send this information in a reply to this email.  We affirm that it will be kept confidential.

In thinking about your ethnicity it is often helpful to describe the country of origin and/or religious affiliation (if known) of each of your four grandparents.  Examples would include Chinese, Ashkenazi Jewish, Irish, Latino etc.

We would be grateful if you would recommend our web site https://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu to friends or colleagues who might be interested  in this project.  We can also provide a CD version of the test if that is more convenient.

If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to call or email us.

Many thanks again for your interest and participation


Sincerely,
Barbara Levinson

Well, time to go enjoy the underlying harmonies of music in a way no one else can.  

[gruffalo]

Well I don't think it really matter either...To be honest, i just noticed that i could start to hear "colors" of various notes when i first started playing (i remember E was the first one) and it gradually accumalated...I don't think the definition of perfect pitch should be as strict as you seem to think, gruffalo...If you can name/sing any note you want, then its perfect pitch. lets not split hairs here...Also, lets remember, as perfect_pitch implied, theres probably a continuum; it doesn have to be the "best" type to be considered perfect pitch

yes and you have picked that up yourseld, you havent been trained at a school to do that.

[al]

whether someone has perfect pitch or not has nothing to do with whether they learned it or were born with it.
perfect pitch is the ability to identify a note by name without a reference note.
relative pitch is the ability to identify the intervals between given notes.
it's that simple.

[gruffalo]

yes but my impression is that people who learned it through a training course still have to think about it. it should be instant and if you know the names of notes there should be nothing to think about.

[bearzinthehood]

Well, I suppose I'd like to give an update on my experience with absolute pitch.  At this point I have a much better sense of absolute pitch than I did a couple weeks ago.  I'm still not perfect, but I have become aware of the fact that I can identify and sing any key without a reference and without "starting at a reference note and counting."  That is, provided that I have integrated it into my vocabulary by thinking of it in the context of a piece.  I can still be confused though, but I'd like to share my experiences.

1)  Repetition is bad and thinking about it is bad.  I tried playing this game called absolute pitch blaster, it sucked and just made things worse.

2)  Second guessing myself is bad, the first thing that comes to mind is almost always right.

3)  Listening for "something", color, whatever doesn't work for me.

4)  For me recalling a piece that starts with a particular key gets the sound in my head better than anything.  For example, if I recall the Largo in Beethoven's Op. 106 and that sweeping F, I get the F sound and I can sing it.  If I think about Chopin Op. 25/2, I can sing the C. 

I mean it's kinda of a cool ability to have, I don't understand why some people downplay it.  I tried sight singing some music and the fact that it was dead on was pretty amazing to me.

Anyways, I'll keep exploring my own senses and feelings and NOT thinking about it and see where it takes me.

[bearzinthehood]

BTW, has anyone here tried to obtain absolute pitch during adulthood?  How were your results?

[perfect_pitch]

Yeah, I never got what the hell people kept referring to as colour... D Major is Red... a minor is cyan....

NEVER GOT IT! I can however see that some keys give off a more romantic sound than others such as D flat, E flat and A flat... etc....

[xvimbi]

I can however see that some keys give off a more romantic sound than others such as D flat, E flat and A flat... etc....

What temperament gives you the greatest differences in the mood of the keys?