Musicians and Homosexuality

[prometheus]

Yes, one thing is more popular than the other. So there will be millions of different reasons as to why more british guys play football(soccer) instead of piano. Yet you try to explain it with one idea.

About turning this in a scientific theory by doing research. I am sure people have tried and that they failed. Just try and find these data. You will see that these kinds of studies will often contradict themselves or make no sense.
Sociology doesn't have laws. Neither does psychology. Even applying scientific method in these fields is something recent and since then not much progress has been made.

I always thought that playing piano was both a male and female thing. Same with violin. I thought playing flute was a female thing while playing guitar was a male thing. Actually, when you think about it you will probably thing piano is a male thing.

Classical music is dominanted by males. 'All' famous composers are male, most famous pianists are male, etc. And this goes for all of music. The only field where females don't have any competition from males is in the field of female singers. Instrumentalism is utterly dominated by males, in all genres of music. So I find it a bit strange that you think music, and even art in general, are female things.

By this logic a guy of 15 might quit piano as he doesnt feel it is inline with what he and his peers view a masculine.

This seems a simple statement, and it is a relatively very simple. First this assumes that gay children don't feel the peer pressure of being masculine. Second this assumes that most straight children will.
Now I understand you accept that not all gay and straight persons are the same and that there are exeptions. But you do not account for any of this in your opinion. Your opinion will probably fit data in some cases. But it does not explain anything. You should change your opinion into something like: "Peer pressure exists." or "People are subconsciously constrained by the values or society." These things happen. The question is how important they are and how many other processes also exist that either strenghten or oppose them. But you ignore this. And you, or rather your opinion, also view society and the nature of peer pressure as something universal and static. So the exact nature and the exact areas where these two processes turn up are very important.
For example, jewish people are often a minority in the society they live in. So they have a different culture. If we take two persons, one from the majority and one from this minority and measure the effect of peer pressure and the constrains of the society they live in you will notice a big difference. So your theory/opinion can be totally invalidated by one small property.

For example I wonder if you expect that with jewish people there will not be a 'disproportional' amount of homosexual pianists.

Lol, yeah you are quite right, although Im sure history would teach us otherwise! Didnt the world used to flat...

They didn't know so they just said it was flat. I am not sure why you say this because this exactly proves my point. They shouldn't have said the world was flat. They should have said they didn't know.

Actually, they did know. Since the greeks, about 600 BC, everyone has known the world was a globe. But when the christian church rose the power and the dark ages started they just claimed the world was flat, because the bible says it. Of course they themselves, and all other experts, knew this was false.
The question is wheneter the peasants knew. Some people believe no one believed the church. Christians today claimed that the church at large didn't even claim the earth was flat. So in that version the flat earth was invented in a crusade, that started with Darwin, by science against religion.

But even today there are still people that believe the earth is flat nonetheless.

[steve jones]

Lads, this could go around and around for ever. And I fear that unless someone puts and end to it, this will be the case.

I believe that alot of what Iv propsed in this thread holds water. I do not feel that my theory explains everything, merely that it is an influencing factor. You can acknowledge this, or you can ignore it as 'absurd' nonesense. Eitherway, its been an interesting thread and a fun debate.

All the best,

SJ

[crazy for ivan moravec]

Lads, this could go around and around for ever. And I fear that unless someone puts and end to it, this will be the case.

- THE END -

[sauergrandson]

Someone said there are three kinds of pianists (see wikipedia on Horowitz)

a) Russian pianists
b) Gay pianists
c) Bad pianists


(but where to insert jew pianists?

[ahinton]

Someone said there are three kinds of pianists (see wikipedia on Horowitz)

a) Russian pianists
b) Gay pianists
c) Bad pianists


(but where to insert jew pianists?

There are indeed three kinds of pianist; those who can count and those who can't.

Now - as the previous contributor wrote:


- - - T H E   E N D - - -

Best,

Alistair

[Dazzer]

Someone said there are three kinds of pianists (see wikipedia on Horowitz)

a) Russian pianists
b) Gay pianists
c) Bad pianists


(but where to insert jew pianists?

that would be inaccurate. Replace russian with Jewish.

and apparently someone remarked that horowitz was 2 of the 3.

the end

[mcgillcomposer]

I think this is an interesting subject (musicians and (homo)sexuality), and one that is often overlooked by musicologists.  Check out this list of gay, or possibly gay/bi, composers:

Barber, Beethoven, Bellini, Bernstein, Brahms, Britten, Busoni, Buxtehude, Caccini, Cage,  Chopin, Copland, Corigliano, Czerny, Debussy, Delius, Del Tredici, Dussek, Elgar, de Falla, Foster, Gershwin, Grainger, Grieg, Handel, Hildegarde von Bingen, Mahler,  Mussorgsky, Porter, Poulenc, Ravel, Saint-Saens, Satie, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, M.T.T... to name a few.

I didn't make the list, don't yell at me...   

https://jclarkmedia.com/gaybooks/composers.html

Cheers,
Fehrle

For some reason I just can't picture Beethoven as being interested in men...hmmm...I wonder why? I suggest that whoever did come  up with that list do some independent reading AND take some history classes.

[lisztisforkids]

Finis

[presto agitato]

Since when is Brahms gay?  I thought he was into Clara, or not?

I believe he was impontent

[ahinton]

I believe he was impontent
[/quote...or maybe imponet - or important - or something - for the meaning of the word you use here is - er - imponderable.

Now in the interests - and to satisfy the expressed wishes - of several other forum members besides myself, can we now, finally, at last, please bring this thread to an

E

N

D



Thank you.

Best,

Alistair