Composition

[asyncopated]

Hi,

Trying my hand at composing.  If you have sometime, please comment on the sonata at

https://giscompute.gis.a-star.edu.sg/~alvin/music

I wasn't too sure where to stick this thread.  The midi is in bad shape --  I don't know how to control the dynamics and the tempo, but the pdf is available.

Some of my other short experiments are there as well.  Tell me what you think!

Thanks!

[mcgillcomposer]

Hey,

Nice work.  Have you ever thought of composing anything outside of the tonal idiom?  For "classical" style, tonality is really an element of the distant past.  Even so, I suppose if it's just for your own enjoyment there is nothing wrong with tonal music.  However, if you choose to compose in this harmonic language you should be very aware of your voice-leading.  There are some unresolved sevenths, a ton of parallels, and some nasty exposed fifths and octaves.  I know it seems so pragmatic, but voice leading rules are there for a very good reason...and those who broke them had very specific reasons for doing so.  As a rule, if you don't have a firm grasp on tonality don't deviate from the fundamental practices of it.  Also, it seems a bit freely composed to be called a sonata as we know it today.  Anyway, keep it up and good luck.  If you are looking for references allow me to suggst the following:

Harmony & Voice Leading by Aldwell and Schachter
Classical Form in the Music of Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven

Two books you'll need to progress in this style.

[asyncopated]

Hi,

Thank you!  Your reply is extremely useful I did a search on voice leading and now understand some of the problems with what I wrote.  I'm in the process of rewriting chords to avoid parallels and similars esp fifths and octaves.  I still don't have a good idea of style but can certainly avoid the obvious pitfalls.  I agree that parallel fifths and octaves is just lazy writing.  Actually I did that just because I did not know any better and that seemed to be the most convenient choice.  No wonder bach disliked it.

Sure, perhaps sonata is not a good name I don't have one yet, so it's out of convience since the intension was to write an exposition (the melody and small invention) development ( the chorale like thing) and recap (starting from the relative major)

After rewriting I will do a roman numeral analysis so that I can find the unresolved sevenths. Actually most of the writing is in the tonic, so it should be easy. But I ought to look out for other disonances as well.

The truth about not writing outside the tonal medium is that I have tried my hand at it, for a simple melody at least, but find it extremely difficult to break away from a tonal setting, mainly due to my lack of knowlege (I started composing about two months back).  I'll clean up that piece and post... if you have the time, I would really appreciate the advice.

So, the main problem I find is that I wrote a short piece, 16 bars -- two eight bar phrases with simple 4 bar sub phrases. I've only used the original theme and one of the row from the matrix  (I think a retrograde), repeating the melody twice with different note values -- not creative but at least atonal.  I try to put a harmony on top and it seems like I'm pulling the piece towards a tone center.  I can't decide on how to write the harmony.  It seems like I'm writing rather random intervals.    so I haven't bothered to clean it up. 

Thanks for the recommendations. I've ordered schoenberg's structure of harmony and fux's counterpoint.  I'll get around to what you've recommended after these arrive.  I'll also have do a seach for ideas on atonal writing try my hand at it again.

Again, Thanks!

al.

[prometheus]

Tonality isn't an element of the distant past, that's an absurdity.

[Torp]

Another thing to consider....

While writing within the constraints of a certain style may be commendable, always keep in mind that your ultimate goal is to communicate your thoughts and feelings through your music.  If an unresolved 7th expresses what you want, so be it.  If it doesn't and it's just "laziness" then fix it.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that rules are made to be broken, but your music should remain pure to your vision.

(weasle words - You may want to understand the rules before you break them.  Mainly because it is usually more powerful to knowingly break a rule than to break one due to ignorance or apathy.)

[mcgillcomposer]

Tonality isn't an element of the distant past, that's an absurdity.

I said it is an element of the past in the modern "classical" style...not in general.  Obviously most film scoring is done in the tonal idiom, but it is true that most modern "classical" composers avoid strict tonality.  It is a question of advancing the field of music composition...composers as far back as Debussy realized this, and Schoenberg finally "emancipated the dissonance" not to do something extreme, but because he saw it as the natural evolution of music...I would hate to contend him.

[mcgillcomposer]

Another thing to consider....

While writing within the constraints of a certain style may be commendable, always keep in mind that your ultimate goal is to communicate your thoughts and feelings through your music.  If an unresolved 7th expresses what you want, so be it.  If it doesn't and it's just "laziness" then fix it.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that rules are made to be broken, but your music should remain pure to your vision.

(weasle words - You may want to understand the rules before you break them.  Mainly because it is usually more powerful to knowingly break a rule than to break one due to ignorance or apathy.)

Good Point.  this is why I said that one should fully understand tonality before they break the rules that have been laid out.  At this point then yes, expression may give a good reason for this.  Although, music is also a craft...an art...it's not ONLY a form of expression.  The unresolved seventh, for example, would have to be developed to maintain a sense of being within the structure of the piece.

[mcgillcomposer]

Asyncopated,

I'm really happy to see that you're so open to suggestions and are willing to learn about new styles.  To not know something and to correct it by learning is one thing, but to not explore due to stubbornness & ignorance is a completely different story.  It is commendable that you have chosen the former path.

If you are interested I will take the time to post the general structure of the exposition in sonata form.  It will take a fair amount of time so I don't want to do it unless you are truly interested.

[asyncopated]

Hi All,

Thanks for your suggestions. 

Torp --   I have to only very little about disonances, basically just how to identify them  minor 2nds, tritones ( I know I use a lot of these ) and 7ths.  I certainly need to do a further study of harmony in general, and for this work,  how to create and resolve tension creatively.  I agree that the ultimate goal is to express myself.  I also believe that knowlege can only bring me closer to this.  Understanding composing styles will give me more tools for expressions. 

Mcgillcomposer -- Thank you very much for your help.  If you have the time, posting the general stucture will help me a lot.  I am going to rewrite the left hand of the exposition and the voices in the chorale and part of the three voice invention.  The structure will remain the same, but I think the harmorny is very weak.  I have started but seem to keep hovoring about the tonic.  I don't know how to breakaway to create something more interesting.  I don't know if the limitation is in the way I set the intervals/chords. Or fit it's in the melody itself.  If you can afford the time, perhaps an analysis will show me what i need to do.

About being open.  I am a scientist and i have to be open to suggestions (anything reasonable).  I definately think that exploration is essential to developing as a composer... perhaps even the only way. 

I will also clean up the atonal work and post it.


al.
 

[prometheus]

Obviously most film scoring is done in the tonal idiom, but it is true that most modern "classical" composers avoid strict tonality.

Most avoid strict atonality also.

[mcgillcomposer]

I would hope so...considering atonal mean without tones