To compose a music from learning piano

[casparma]

As you people probably know that I have learned piano for about 2 years...

however, I still dont understand, how do you call something a music instead of mere, trival noises?

or in another word, why some combinations of chords or notes etc sound better than if you just strike the keys on the piano randomly??


From the knowlege I have for musical theory, I cant really find a good explanation for this...


likewise, what is "composing"?


any body??

ps, plz tell me if you dont understand my question

thx

[prometheus]

Are you sure you do know music theory then? Or are you looking for a really deep explenation (ie pyschological or even neurological)?

[leahcim]

however, I still dont understand, how do you call something a music instead of mere, trival noises?

There was a good program on BBC2 learning zone the other day in the middle of the night,, with J Holland talking to lots of boogie woogie / Stride / Blues and Jazz pianists [and some guy called Paul McCartney who looked as surprised to be part of it as he probably should have done]

One of the Jazz players said "It's not just playing anything like this..." and then hit random notes up and down the piano....then he said "Mind you, I can do that and make it work, because I'm a Jazz pianist" and he played more or less the same random notes with an appropriate accompaniment.

[casparma]

ok, let me ask the question clearer and again.....

what do you have to know to compose a music??

ie, how do you know what kind of the combination of notes/chords you made sound like music instead of making "noises"??

[prometheus]

The moment you organise notes you are writing music.

I am not sure what you mean with noises. Even if you bang at the piano totally randomly all the sounds will still be musical tones.

To compose music you don't need to know anything about theory. But it will help greatly. And to compose a work in the european classical style you need to know about form, structure and harmony.

The less talent and experience you have the more music theory will help. But certainly anyone can whistle a new melody, right? And if you listen to music, surely you know some harmonic grammar, subconsciously.

What will help is the concept of tonality. Then you will have chords and notes and you can force all the basic stuff through music theory. Preferably you will hear the music in your head. But it is very hard to hear new music in your head, at least for me. So I come up with a melody. I either write down something based on arpeggios and beats, then listen to it and change it so it sounds good. If I have something I will listen and I will hear how it should continue. If I don't I apply music theory.

And when writing classical music I will always have several different kinds of forms and structures in mind. The overal structure is very important in classical music. It should have a plot like a story.

[Ruro]

Ah! Ideal with questions I have this thread, so not particularly hi-jacking, since it's highly related Hopefuly I'm still not an evil begger to post in it though.

 I composed my first piano solo piece recently (infact I made revisions yet again today!), except some people have asked me: "What kinda style is it?" or what kinda genre...
What can I say? I mean... certainly not Jazz, blues or soul... it's just a piece :/ If anything it's classical I guess, but I'm not sure what defines it into the classical genre.

Also, I'm not sure what IT IS if it's classical. It was supposed to be a Piano Sonata,  it has 4/4 Beat so no Waltz or anything. It lasts 4 minutes and is just a single movement (Prok 3rd is a single movement too), but I thought it might be too short to be a sonata O_o Not a prelude or Polonaise me thinks... Hybrid form? lol

Oh, and I also tried to implement structure... of some sort, the theme varies throughout but eventually returns at the end (and in the middle somewhere), and also speeds up and slows down with FF to PP etc. so... it isn't crazy throughout!

what do you have to know to compose a music??

For me, the complete amateur with the simple if not wrong answer (but got me somewhere):
Know how to build a scale and simple chord structures; C Major Chord + Inversions goes a long way, then I just transposed the odd key when it seemed neccesary, until I got what I wanted ^_^ My piece is technically pretty cheap, but it's a first try

It certainly is fun composing, if you have the concentration which I don't ~_~ Tried composing now, instead I ended up playing old pieces in my repertoire O_o

[ted]

Casparma:

I'd be inclined not to concern myself with all these complicated questions concerning objective criteria. The first thing is to find out what sounds YOU like, which combinations of pitches, rhythms and so on cause reactions in YOUR brain. That's all that matters in the end. If your responses coincide with commonly accepted ones, all well and good, if not all well and good too. Try studying a bit of theory and see if it helps you understand your creative impulse. If it does then learn more about it, if not don't bother.

It seems to me you are trying to understand the process from the outside in instead of from the inside out.
 

[casparma]

maybe my question doesnot make much sense... but well,

another way of expressing my question is this:

insofar of my pianistic skill, about half a year ago, my teacher asks me to improvise on a piano.. oh well, I played the piece I know... but he said something playing from your emotion... then he domonstrated... and I asked what music is he playing, he said, no name at all, it's "inprovisation"


from that time, after the lesson, I tried that at home, but it really sounds horrible.. I mean, generally horrible that public will accept it as horrible...


Sometimes I hum a melody when I feel happy, but I guess that is some sort of improvisation... but how about piano?? music has emotion too.. and how can we express that in "improvisation" on piano??

and if I can improvise well on piano, then am not I able to compose now??


any idea??

thx

[prometheus]

Improvisation is something different than composing. You need to have all the chords ready as reflexes. It takes a long time to build musical vocabulary into your reflexes. Takes a lot of time. Just like learning a major Beethoven sonata takes a lot of time.

[ted]

Okay, I think I see where you stand now. Yes, if you can improvise fluently at the piano you can certainly compose for piano, although the converse is not necessarily true. How much of it you have the energy or inclination to attempt writing out is entirely another matter.

So if it boils down to your learning to improvise and your teacher can improvise well, then why can't he help you ? Mine did. That would seem to be the obvious course of action. Perhaps you could suggest to him that you would like a certain amount of lesson time devoted to improvisation.

[rc]

Preferably you will hear the music in your head. But it is very hard to hear new music in your head, at least for me.

I learned about hearing music in my head by accident... When I first moved into a place of my own I had no TV, no stereo, no computer = no music or noises at all. dead silence every day after work, not even a phone, I would hear traffic and babies crying down the street.

My mind started making its own music, first playing through songs I was very familiar with, then changing those songs in ways, then complete imaginary improvisation. I could consciously begin the mental improv (eg. imagine violin playing ascending triplet pattern) but it wouldn't flow until I entered a different state of mind. Conscious improv was decent at best, what I think really needs practicing is getting into that alternate state of mind.

Anyhow, that's how I came across it. Try turning off all your gadgets for a day or two and imagine-improv, you may be surprised how naturally it flows out once you hit 'the zone'.

[prometheus]

Well, I am not very fluid at generating new music. And in no way how good Mozart was or something. But if I have some notes on paper I listen and I hear it has to be different or where it should go.

Making up new melodies and making variations on melodies is easy, but chords and harmonies, those are complex.


I guess playing back music from your mind helps. I used to play in my mind Metallica songs note for note when I saw cycling to school, which took 40 minutes. Just playing back the sounds. I did improvisations on the solo's.

So then I took up guitar and now I am here

Casparma, I suggest you ask your teacher about how he improvises. This isn't some natuaral inborn skill or talent. You need to learn it.