sostenuto pedal -- limitations

[alzado]

My piano does not have a sostenuto pedal, just a bass sustain which I never use.

At times I thought, "gosh, I wish I had a sostenuto pedal."

However, one situation that comes up continually is to hold just one note of a chord.  While that is held, one goes on to play other notes that follow.  In Erik Satie, this is just an "all the time" situation.  (Gymnopedies just one example.)  I have also been playing Edward MacDowell and this is very common in his pieces.

The problem, which is obvious, is that a sostenuto will hold a note or a chord, but if you use the pedal it will not hold one note of a chord and "lose" the rest.

With the composers mentioned above, one maintains the held note while -- if possible -- picking up subsequent notes with the remaining fingers of the right hand.

In Satie, you often use left hand to come up to the treble register and pick up the needed notes while the right continues to hold the note.

My point is that -- with some of these composers -- the sostenuto pedal is really not very useful.

Moreover, when I play piano I sometimes have timing or other problems because my brain is trying to make my two hands do different things -- this is why 3 against 4 or 4 against 3 is difficult, as most of you know.

While all this is going on, more often than not my right foot is pressing or releasing the sustain pedal. 

I am not sure if my brain has enough connections to keep two pedals going -- sostenuto and sustain -- plus my two hands.

I'm just an amateur and am sure that concert professionals have difficult material in the repertoire that has legitimate need for the sostenuto.  What are some pieces where a sostenuto pedal is almost 'de rigeur'?

However, perhaps a lot of mid-range family pianos don't include the expense of a sostenuto because they are not essential for pieces of mid-level difficulty.  I notice that some of the Yamaha grands, which are not cheap, do not have a sostenuto.

Any comments?

[bearzinthehood]

I've only played one that absolutely required it, which was the A minor prelude from pour le piano (Debussy).

[chickering9]

I've only played one that absolutely required it, which was the A minor prelude from pour le piano (Debussy).

DeBussy is the only composer I've played where I found it useful or even necessary.  I've never thought it necessary for Satie, though I tried it.  When I tried it, I concluded it was simply wrong for the Gymnopedies and Gnossiennes.  I try to do more with the fingers and less with the pedaling for those, using mostly half pedal on the sustain and that judiciously.

I'd like to know specifically for which notes in the Satie alzado wants to use the sostenuto.

[chickering9]

...In Satie, you often use left hand to come up to the treble register and pick up the needed notes while the right continues to hold the note.

Just the opposite of my experience.  Much more often, it is the left holding notes while the right reachs over the left and picks up the bass notes.  I've never reached with the left over the right, but often the opposite.

[alzado]

For Bearzinthehood--

He asks, where in Satie do I want to use the sostenuto pedal.

This might be a misunderstanding.  I was trying to come up with examples where the composer requires long holds, but a sostenuto would not work for them.  You play several notes simultaneously, then hold just one of them -- even if for several measures. My point was -- in such cases you cannot use the sostenuto -- because it will hold all the notes played at the instant the pedal goes on, not just certain ones. 

He asks for an example.  Third Gymopedie, measures 19 and 20.  A key D is played sumultaneously with a low G.  The G ends shortly, the D is held through two measures where other chords are played.  And so one needs to bring the left hand up to play those chords.  Similar situations occur again in this Gymnopedie, and they occur in all three of the Gymnopedies.

I am pretty sure the left-hand shift is appropriate, because my edition (Alfred, edited by Baylor) indicates it.

Thank you to all who replied --