problems with individuality between 4 and 5 fingers

[rachmanny]

hello, i have a problem with my 4 and 5 fingers in the right hand, for example when fingers 1 through 4 are playing my pinky seems to follow the fourth finger like i fthey where one, but it should stay straight and upward  while not plating should it? how can i look for individuality betwwen 4 and 5. What exercises should be recommended?


thank you
rachmanny

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Your problem is a problem every pianist has to face. The fourth and fifth fingers are much less developed naturally and one must exercise them, but VERY carefully. I assume you study with a teacher. If not then be very wary of injury. Never force the fingers to work, but try to lift as much as allows. Always do this under a teacher's eye. One must train fingers to be totally independent from other fingers. As I said earlier NEVER try to "artificially" lift them or such as that could lead to injury. Finger practice is essential, as well as scales, arpeggios, ect. In my opinion scales are extremely helpful for finger precision, key practice and technique, but that is just my opinion. Some disagree. Anyway, since I am just a student who follows my teacher's teaching, you should consider other people's comments and more importantly your teachers. Never rush into anything that could injure you. With enough correct practice your fingers will be independant and precise.

Best wishes to you.

[sportsmonster]

in my case...that problem naturally went away after i played over a period of time,
and it might not take a long time at all.  that is probably because i played pieces that had 4-5 finger much included.

practicing and finding scales for that area can be included too. maybee you should try to find piano pieces that challenges that area to a bigger level (without getting damage problems)

i know there is piano pieces that dont use 4-5 fingering very much....try to not play those.

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

From my experience you shouldn't rush into the more challenging pieces that may already demand independent fingers. Czerny etudes and scales are extremelly helpful, but need to be played correctly or they will be of little use. They develop wrist movement, finger independence, ect. If played correctly along with scales you would develop proper finger technique. There are also pieces by J.S. Bach such as the "Little Preludes and Fugues" that really develop you technique, but these pieces are very challenging and requere a lot of practice and memorising. Again you teacher will best guide you to best practice.



Best Wishes to all.

[casparma]

Well, to what extent of the individuality for 4 and 5 finger do you people poccess??

When I play 4 and 5 repeatedly, when 5 is down, finger 1-3 move up and when 4 is down, finger 1-3 move down.

Obviously I haven't got complete individuality...

curious, does any one have such individuality that when moving 4 and 5 finger, the other 3 fingers's positions are not effected subsequently?? or know any one who has it?

[sportsmonster]

hmm...good point.....this should only be a problem if you cant play a piano piece because of this. if you individuality doesent effect your piano playing. than this shouldnt be a problem.

if my one finger moves down, the rest of the fingers follow to a certain degree. but not much. this is naturally for everyone.

[thalbergmad]

I have always played trills as a warm up, with all combinations of fingers and in thirds and sixths.

[casparma]

Ok...

let me clarify...if you can consider that your indivuduality reaches as what I said before...

can you trill with 4 and 5 finger?

[thalbergmad]

I can trill 4/5 in either hand comfortably, evenly and with no strain.

Mind you i have been playing for 37 years and i play a lot of Thalberg.

[casparma]

oh...

so how did you practice 4 and 5 fingers trill?

I also had problem with 2 and 3 fingers trill, but I overcomed in nearly 2 weeks.

37 years...long, but shorter than my teacher he played for about 67 years... yeah, he's an old guy.

[thalbergmad]

I personally use the trill exercises in the Hanon book.

However, if your teacher has been playing for that long, i would ask him what to do.

I wouldn't be worried if you can't do 4/5 trills, you don't come across it that often. I just find that playing trills is a good finger loosener.

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

Infact trill do help alot with finger individuality. Czerny has trill etudes as well. Also practicing with individual fingers helps as in a dominant seventh chord. Lets say in C major. The dominant seventh will require all the fingers to be holding down a note. One could practice playing each finger while holding down the other notes. That has helped me. Then you could alternate intervals in both hands while holding down other notes. You must ALWAYS stay RELAXED!! even if you already are. Remind yourself. Even a little bit or tension could lead to damage. Also one must keep the hand in the correct position to play safely. If done correctly it will help alot. This practice helps me very much.


Best wishes to all.

[rachmanny]

thank god i read the replies, i was starting to force the fingers towards individuality.

best regards
rachmanny

[timland]

Try this method for learning trills. I was able to trill with 4 & 5 in a short time using it.

1. Have your hand relaxed and lightly touching the key surface. For example have
4 & 5 on F & G.

2. Play very slowly to key bottom and count out loud while doing it. Four notes to a beat.
One - FGFG  Two - FGFG  Three  - FGFG  Four - FGFG  Up! - F   On the final F say out loud  UP! then take your hand off the keys and rest it in your lap for a few seconds.

3. Put your hand back on F & G and as fast and quietly as possible play FGFGF. Do not raise your fingers or  play to key bottom. Only press the key down as far as necessary for sound.
Count out loud while playing. On the final F, which is the begining of the next group, accent it slightly and say out loud UP! and at that point take your hand off the keys and rest it in your lap for a few seconds.

4.  When you can do one impulse of 4 notes well then do 2 then 3, 4 then 8.

5. Repeat with G as the starting note for the 4 note impulses.  GFGF.

6. If your having trouble getting the initial FGFGF fast enough, try lightly playing FG as fast as possible then GF, FGF, GFG, FGFG, GFGF then FGFGF.   Drop your hand in your lap after each impulse.

The key to trilling is relaxation which is the purpose of dropping your hand in your lap.