The "all is wrong" type of teacher

[stormx]

Hi,

I am a beginner (1 year of piano).

My teacher is very critical, and point out my many mistakes in a way that is not very encouraging. Of course, he is completely right in what he criticises, but last class i left with the sensation that i really suck at piano. 

On the other hand, in order to show me my mistakes, he deeply exagerates them, ridiculizing my playing. For instance, if i dont manage to obtain a good legato, he just tell me "look, you are playing like this..and he plays really staccato". Or, if i wrongly accentuate some note, he imitates me playing it FF.

Besides this, i feel he is a very competent teacher, aware of every detail.

Do you have any experience with this kind of teacher?
How to manage it in order to not feel discouraged after every lesson?

Thanks

[zheer]

Thats haw it was with my first piano teacher for a long time, but i wanted to learn the piano so badly that i went on no matter what. After a few years i had the feeling that she started to like my progress and deturmination, so i earnt my respect, she was then happy to teach me and keep me as a student. However piano teachers can be too hard on people, especially if they are gifted.

[m1469]

he he, well, I am not laughing at you but, sure, I have some experience with this.  At first I was deeply embarrassed and felt that I was blushing a deep, deep red (maybe almost purple) when he did this.  I don't know, maybe I used to dread his exaggerations of me...

But then, I started teaching and what do you know !  I started doing the same thing to a couple of my students ... one of them blushed just like I did and got the point very quickly (for that lesson).  The other went home mortified (heh).  When it came time for me to find something to exaggerate again, she felt it coming and said "Please don't do that exaggeration thing again, it really hurt my feelings last time and I went home and almost cried."  She just doesn't want to see me do it, I can't figure out why.  Well, I did it anyway... he he... and she exclaimed in a funny voice "That's it !  This relationship is just not going to work out"  and really we had a good laugh.

Anyway, I think it's a useful tool when used at the right time (just like all tools), and have had teachers still do it to me.  Now I laugh at myself and think it is humorous what I must have been doing to have my teacher exaggerate like that (plus it's fun to watch).  Although I still get a little embarrassed.


m1469

[arensky]

Hi,

I am a beginner (1 year of piano).

My teacher is very critical, and point out my many mistakes in a way that is not very encouraging. Of course, he is completely right in what he criticises, but last class i left with the sensation that i really suck at piano. 

On the other hand, in order to show me my mistakes, he deeply exagerates them, ridiculizing my playing. For instance, if i dont manage to obtain a good legato, he just tell me "look, you are playing like this..and he plays really staccato". Or, if i wrongly accentuate some note, he imitates me playing it FF.

Besides this, i feel he is a very competent teacher, aware of every detail.

Do you have any experience with this kind of teacher?
How to manage it in order to not feel discouraged after every lesson?

Thanks

Lose him like a bad habit fast. If he was a competent teacher he would not make fun of you or as you say "ridiculize". Some teachers are harsh and strict and I had one like that (quite famous) who told me rather harshly to leave a lesson because I was not prepared. He was right. BUT HE NEVER MADE FUN OF ME!!!!  >: ( Becuase he was a PROFESSIONAL.  This guy is just a f*****g jerk. Whatever his pianistic abilities he is A BAD TEACHER. He's not teaching you, he's humiliating you, and enjoying it. I've seen this type before. They do not last, unless they are famous pianists and then they usually quit the teaching because they are not suited, they know it and don't have to.

Again this "person" is an A*****E.  I'm sure you can find someone who is competent who will help you and is not a bully. 

[gilad]

i'm a beginner too.who can say for sure, it's very situational whether you think you should leave him or stay. My teacher is a jolly old chap, but he has ridiculed me before(when i hadn't practised), but if he sees i'm putting in the work and on top of where i should be or at least have my shoulders above water he's very encouraging. his own teacher was apparently the strictest in the business.
if you are pulling your weight and doing your best and he doesn't recognise this or care then maybe it is time to lose him. in that case it doesn't appear that he'd be doing you any good.

[zheer]

i agree with both Arensky and gilad, if he is making you feel small then find another teacher. Its his loss you are paying him.

[joachimf]

I agree with zheer and agree with the ones he agree with.. lol

A teacher is supposed to give you critisism, yes, but not be rude or anything like that. He is supposed to point out mistakes to you, but not overdramatize the mistakes, rather show you just what you are doing and tell you (or show you) how you can do better. Then you are supposed to say: "Aaahh, of course!", and you leave the lesson satisfied and happy.. lol:P

[rimv2]

Hi,

I am a beginner (1 year of piano).

My teacher is very critical, and point out my many mistakes in a way that is not very encouraging. Of course, he is completely right in what he criticises, but last class i left with the sensation that i really suck at piano. 

On the other hand, in order to show me my mistakes, he deeply exagerates them, ridiculizing my playing. For instance, if i dont manage to obtain a good legato, he just tell me "look, you are playing like this..and he plays really staccato". Or, if i wrongly accentuate some note, he imitates me playing it FF.

Besides this, i feel he is a very competent teacher, aware of every detail.

Do you have any experience with this kind of teacher?
How to manage it in order to not feel discouraged after every lesson?

Thanks

Dont be so sensitive. He's just exaggerating to get you to stop making the mistake. If he played exactly as you played, you would either not hear the difference or make the same mistake because it would be reinforced by hearing an outside repetition of it.

AHAHAHA ah possibly made that up, but its possibly true as well.

Mah teacher did the same thing when ah made similar mistakes, but to tell the truth, if she didnt exaggerated ah would not have known the difference.

Now it has got to the point where she makes less exaggerative sounds and more exact sounds as ah advance. This is because now ah can actually hear the subtle differences she aims at.

[quantum]

I believe that the student and the teacher must possess a two way relationship.  You don't go to lesson's to be lectured, you go to interact with someone who passes on their knowledge.  To get the most of of lessons, both the student and teacher must be comfortable in each others company.  You should not feel ashamed of making mistakes infront of your teacher, as this is how you will learn a lot of your material.  If your teacher ridicules your mistakes instead on focusing on methods of correcting them, I would highly question your teachers teaching ability. 

Going to a new teacher may be difficult at first, but if you don't find yourself getting accustomed to his/her style after some time maybe it is best to start looking for another teacher. 

[ch0p1n 0wnz u]

Of course your no expert after only 1 year, i dont know how your teacher acts but,i guess he just exagerates things so you understand what you did wrong quicker and more clearly or maybe he doesnt mean to exagerate!  If your teacher does say mean things and is putting you down find another teacher because you will just end up quitting, you must feel comfortable with your teacher also, but if you go further in piano,  and you get more experienced teachers eg the conservatorium, they pick the s**## out of what you play even if you think its good, and they dont care if you feel like a crap player, i have a school teacher who said so many things about my playing that did upset me, but he may have seemed mean, but he was the most helpful! you dont want a nice teacher that says, good playing even though you make mistakes, and when you make mistakes you dont want a nice taecher that says, dont worry keep going!

i suggest you keep your teacher (unless this teacher really is being mean)
but also it is good for your teacher to tell you not just where your going bad but where your going really good, eg: my teacher always says your trills etc are fantastic or good left hand, so i go out feeling good about my trills, but my teacher also tells me where im going wrong and i walk out knowing where to improve, you will always get better!

never feel bad about what your teacher says, never let yourself think your a bad player! keep practising!


good luck

[alzado]

My teacher is just the opposite-- which suits me fine.

I am a senior citizen and really enjoy playing.  My teacher is my "concert audience" and so it is always fun to play a new piece for her.  I find them myself and learn them pretty much myself.  If I stay on them for a second or third week, I will incorporate all the suggestions of the teacher and thus improve them.

My teacher sometimes waits until I entirely finish a piece.  Then she will say, "before we put this aside, I want to show you a few things."  Then she will point out several places in the music and explain to me why I was wrong.   For one example, this could be that I have the rhythm wrong, even though I hit the right keys.

This teacher is not "playing hardball," but maybe she adjusts to what she feels I want and expect.

[whynot]

To the original poster:  very best wishes in your playing, and don't let this teacher (or anyone) take away your desire to study music.  If you like some things about this teacher, you can respectfully explain that when he exaggerates your mistakes, 1.  it embarasses you, and 2.  you're not sure how to fix it just by hearing that it's wrong.  Could you please hear it just the way he likes it, and you will try to imitate him.  If he is willing to do this for you, I'd suggest you stay, and if he just ridicules you more or gets defensive and rude, I would suggest you leave because every teacher should be able to teach any concept several different ways.  If he only knows one way, he's not a good teacher. 

I liked Quantum's reply very much, and I like the sound of Alzado's teacher.  I HATE HATE HATE when someone exaggerates my errors or some lapse in taste.  It embarasses me, hurts my feelings, and makes me suspect that the teacher is more into looking smart than helping me to be better.  It takes a lot of effort and creative imagination to help one aspect of someone's playing without damaging another. 

As teachers, we have to help people to hear and recognize very subtle things.  I don't think that super-exaggerating is the most effective way to do this.  In addition to being impolite, it also fails to demonstrate what they actually should be doing.  Showing them how stupid they sound doing it wrong does not show them how to do it right!  If we know that they won't understand a subtle demonstation at first,  we can just explain, "I'm going to really exaggerate this so you hear the idea, but this isn't what you sounded like, I just want to make it easy to hear."  Then keep demonstrating the same musical event, getting more and more subtle.  Keep asking, can you still hear it?  If we do this really well, they will start to hear all kinds of nuance in music and then they'll know what kinds of sounds to try to make.  And if we cannot do this well, we'd better not be making fun of anyone else. 

We also have to help students learn to take risks and be courageous at the piano, which they are not likely to do if they know we are going to embarass them for it afterwards.  They should see their lessons partly as a place to try new sounds and ideas and get helpful feedback, not ridicule.  In fact, the most frequent compliments I give to students are responding to being brave, trying new things, solving problems in the moment when something goes wrong etc.  Because what will they have when they don't have us anymore?  A heightened sense of beauty and character in music, so they have ideas and ideals to pursue?   Courage to keep trying when it's difficult and they're on their own?  Or years and years of memories of how all their instincts were always wrong, their ideas were stupid, and they never learned how to fix it and sound better?  I am determined that my students don't remember me this way, or believe that they are stupid or unmusical just because they started out rough around the edges.  Very few people start out any other way.   

[ted]

Is not the main issue here to do with the "how" of his personality rather than the "what" of his corrections ? It is unfortunate that, in all aspects of life, there are people who have not learned the art of constructive criticism. It is a very difficult propensity to change unless the person concerned realises how he sounds to other people, and of course to actually explain that to him carries the dual risk of becoming abusive yourself or provoking further emotion in him.

Unfortunately, many extremely talented and, at heart, well meaning people possess this social defect as part of their psyche. We then have to decide if what they have to offer is worth our putting up with the rudeness and whether or not polite personal remonstrance is likely to have any effect. Putting myself in your place, I would initially look at the facts and nothing more than the facts. Are the facts, as opposed to the emotion, of his outbursts valid ? If I remove the unpleasant communicative aspect, is he making factual sense ?

If the answers to these questions were negative then I would find another teacher. If the substance of his points is correct, that is to say his actual teaching is sound, then I would, at an appropriate moment, calmly explain to him why his manner upset me. After all, these people sometimes go on for years without realising how bad their communication skills are. You may find, as I have found with "workplace characters" over many years, that he is genuinely astonished and embarrassed, and that you are the first person who has ever bothered to enlighten him about it without either confrontation or submission.

If he dismisses your feelings as irrelevant, then you must choose between putting up with him for the sake of his merits or leaving. Doing this, incidentally will build your own resources of tact and communication.

[stormx]

Thanks you all for your the very good advices i got.

This is a great forum 

[tac-tics]

Part of being a good teacher is being able to overlook small mistakes and instead focus on the bigger ones. If your teacher can't do that, go find one that can.

[ryan2189]

Part of being a good teacher is being able to overlook small mistakes and instead focus on the bigger ones. If your teacher can't do that, go find one that can.

When smaller mistakes are corrected it adds to an even better performance overall. The trick to correcting them is to do it in a tasteful and patient manner. This way students will focus more on their skills and abiliities, not just on what the teacher has to say next. Also, overlooking samller mistakes can lead to poblems in the future. Then again this also depends on what you would consider to be "smaller mistakes"

[spitz]

I've only had 2 teachers (17 months with first(1 month with current teacher(so I don't talk with that much experience...lol...but))) the first was really good and after only a month with my current I can tell she is really really good. But neither were strict, like you mentioned yours is. The first would only say what I did wrong and to improve on it not much optimisticism (don't mock my vocabulary) though (however she was astounished when I showed I could play 'Moonlight' first movement after 8 months with her(she was very optimistic after that anyway)) she just told me what to improve on. My current teacher says what I do right and what I do wrong (mainly what I do right (I don't do many things wrong) but when she tells me what I do wrong I make sure I fix that problem so she doesn't have to say it again. I think that is what you should do when your teacher says what your doing wrong just fix the problem practice a lot if you must just make so s/he doesn't have to announce your mistakes anymore and after that s/he should not have to exaggeraite your mistakes just simply say what you did wrong and how you can improve it since you already showed him you can improve your mistakes

[tac-tics]

When smaller mistakes are corrected it adds to an even better performance overall. The trick to correcting them is to do it in a tasteful and patient manner. This way students will focus more on their skills and abiliities, not just on what the teacher has to say next. Also, overlooking samller mistakes can lead to poblems in the future. Then again this also depends on what you would consider to be "smaller mistakes"

As you get better, the number of big mistakes you make goes down. That leaves only smaller mistakes to fix. In other words, your small mistakes become your bigger (or may it would be better put, your more attention-worthy?) mistakes.

[lani_piano_learner]

Hi, I think we've all experienced this at times (I've taken clarinet lessons for 4 years).

I was very sensitive to criticism when I first started lessons and I ended up practicing more so as to make less mistakes to avoid it! I think I expected to get better faster so being told what I was doing wrong just frustrated me. But then I realised learning is forever and I will be making mistakes forever! Even total pros do sometimes so I now think "Hang in there, you will get that soon."

I too have found the more I've progressed through the the less criticism I've got and the more praise my teacher gives me ... I think because my teacher was so good and has taught for so long there is so much they want to pass on and they too find it frustrating to go through the lower grades with beginners.

Also, you go through plateaus where you keep making the same mistake over and over which is frustrating to both you and the teacher but one day you'll get it right and you'll be delighted!

If it doesn't get better, you can always try another teacher ... but if he's really good - thats worth hanging on to!!