Weighted keys: acoustic vs. digital piano

[getcool]

Hi all,

I've lurked on these boards for a while now but I just decided to register and make my first post.  Thank you all for your valuable input!

I'm "kind of" just starting out on piano; I am primarily a woodwind player who has dabbled in piano over many years but just recently decided to get serious with it.  I've been playing piano seriously for about six months now.

I bought a Yamaha P120 digital piano (in the $1000-1200 range, just to give you an idea), which I love, but I have a major problem.  When I play a given piece on my P120, I can sound "good" (as good as I can be at my level), but when I attempt that same piece on an acoustic piano, I sound much worse.  Specifically, I don't seem to have the same level of dynamic control and expression that I do on my digital piano.  Now, that obviously sounds screwy; logically, a good pianist would be able to do more with an acoustic than a digital, so obviously I am doing something wrong.

In particular, I find that I have trouble playing softly on acoustic pianos.  I feel like I need to hit the keys more forcefully in order to get any sound, but then I feel like I cannot achieve a true piano or pianissimo.  A good example of where this is made apparent is in the first movement of the Moonlight; I have a lot of trouble bringing out the melody on an acoustic, whereas on my digital, I can play it much better.

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the weight of the keys.  Even though the P120 has weighted keys and has a very good feel, it isn't the "real thing", and so the weight of the keys is going to differ across instruments.  Obviously, then, the simple answer would be: "Practice on an acoustic, not your P120."  However, I have limited access to acoustic pianos right now, and I cannot practice regularly on them.

I'm not sure what kind of help anyone can give besides for telling me to simply get more accustomed to the feel of an acoustic (which is a valid response), but if anyone has any advice I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

[Bob]

Would it be possible to take the Yamaha to a piano tech and have them reweight your keys?

[xvimbi]

I bought a Yamaha P120 digital piano (in the $1000-1200 range, just to give you an idea), which I love, but I have a major problem.  When I play a given piece on my P120, I can sound "good" (as good as I can be at my level), but when I attempt that same piece on an acoustic piano, I sound much worse.  Specifically, I don't seem to have the same level of dynamic control and expression that I do on my digital piano.  Now, that obviously sounds screwy; logically, a good pianist would be able to do more with an acoustic than a digital, so obviously I am doing something wrong.

I doubt you are doing anything wrong. I think you are simply experiencing the differences between two different instruments. Strictly speaking, digitals and acoustics are like apples and oranges; they should not be directly compared. In many ways, acoustics behave very much different from digitals. They are both valid instruments in their own right, but to expect that digitals are a true representation of acoustics would be too much.

In particular, I find that I have trouble playing softly on acoustic pianos.  I feel like I need to hit the keys more forcefully in order to get any sound, but then I feel like I cannot achieve a true piano or pianissimo.  A good example of where this is made apparent is in the first movement of the Moonlight; I have a lot of trouble bringing out the melody on an acoustic, whereas on my digital, I can play it much better.

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the weight of the keys.  Even though the P120 has weighted keys and has a very good feel, it isn't the "real thing", and so the weight of the keys is going to differ across instruments.  Obviously, then, the simple answer would be: "Practice on an acoustic, not your P120."  However, I have limited access to acoustic pianos right now, and I cannot practice regularly on them.

I do not believe it has anything to do with the weight of the keys. There are plenty of acoustics that are lighter than the typical Yamaha digital action, and there are plenty of acoustics with heavier actions. One of the biggest differences is that acoustics have escapement mechanisms, whereas digitals don't (only a few, high-end digitals have that). This means indeed that on an acoustic, you need to press a key down with a certain minimum force to achieve any sound, whereas digitals often respond to much smaller velocity values.

You mention "true pianissimo". There is no such thing. The softest sound one can reliably achieve on a given piano is the "true pp (or ppp, if you wish)" for that given piano. Any louder notes need to be played relative to that one. The upper limit is of course "ff", or fff, ffff if you want to get sophisticated. Keep in mind that 'pp' on a digital with only you listening to it will be inaudible to someone sitting in the last row at Carnegie Hall. A pp on a Steinway D in such a venue might sound like 'f' in your home.

I'm not sure what kind of help anyone can give besides for telling me to simply get more accustomed to the feel of an acoustic (which is a valid response), but if anyone has any advice I would greatly appreciate it.

Keep practicing on your digital if that's all you have available. Play as much on acoustics as you can. Keep in mind that you may need half an hour to get accustomed to an acoustic. Even experienced pianists need time to get accustomed to an acoustic they have never played on before.

[leahcim]

I'm not sure what kind of help anyone can give besides for telling me to simply get more accustomed to the feel of an acoustic (which is a valid response), but if anyone has any advice I would greatly appreciate it.

At music live on Saturday I noticed that. Yamaha had a bunch of acoustics and none of the digitals [not even the yamaha digitals] had actions much like them.

Although the acoustics felt different too [some were silent uprights and some were grand pianos which explains some of the differences in touch, but not all]

In short you said the answer, but it's not necessarily a practical one. But, bear in mind because acoustic actions are different, so you might find moving between them takes time to adjust to the different touch too - ultimately folk choose their acoustic piano and / or get a tech to adjust it based on whatever they prefer - there is no "the acoustic action" for a digital manuf to copy.

I wouldn't go as far as to say don't compare digital and acoustic. Although different, they are designed to be, marketed as and ultimately supposed to be comparable - clearly they fall short, but that's not a reason to not compare them [and most of the shortfall is in the sound]- it's more a reason why you should, and try and find one that's closer if you can.

The grandtouch series is likely to be the best from the touch pov, because it's an acoustic action, but even with the fake actions, yamaha aren't the only digital piano manufacturer for you to try [although from the pov of soliciting responses from experience they may as well be - most of us have them]

[atticus]

Hi all,

Where is difference between playing different types of piano's the biggest as far as touch goes?

Is it noticed most in digital versus any type of acoustic or is there any equally big difference in acoustic uprights versus acoustic grands?

Thanks,
atticus

[alzado]

I question the wisdom of playing the acoustic piano chords very very soft, then complaining about the action's response being erratic.

Dynamics are important, but relative.  I mean, obviously pp is quieter than ff. 

So there's a dynamic range, I guess I what I am emphasizing.

You can play chords softy, so long as you get a full stroke out of your hammers.

If you try to play chords very soft, you get an irregular result, and -- for me, at least -- it seems like the notes of the chord are not quite sounding simultaneously.

Interesting posting -- thanks for posting it --

[Bob]

is there any equally big difference in acoustic uprights versus acoustic grands?

Thanks,
atticus

Yes.  There must be a thread somewhere, if not many.