Playing a piano concerto

[nicolaievich]

I just want to know your opinion about how much experience do someone need to play a piano concerto.
I mean, being mentally prepared to play a piano concerto.
I am sure that's not the same playing a Mozart than a Rachmaninov one, but, let's talk about an average-difficult concerto.

[perfect_pitch]

I'd probably beg to differ... when playing a Piano Concerto... ANY piano concerto... You have to be mentally prepared in the memorisation process, mentally aware of each individual theme and the mental preperation of focusing solely on the sound of both your instrument and the instruments around you.

A Piano Concerto in my opinion is the repertoire in which you devote your heart and soul into this music, in an effort to truly express your most deepest emotions.

You can't just assume that a Mozart Piano Concerto is easier (while the difficulty in the notes may be) the whole process is exactly the same.

[BoliverAllmon]

I talked to a teacher and said that even the most talented of students should never even think of touching a PC until after 5-6 years of intense studying. Longer for us average folks. He says there is too much solo and chamber music to learn and aquire technique from to dive into a PC that early. PC's are show pieces and unless you can show-off there is no need to play them yet.

[nicolaievich]

I agree with both of you.
Memorisation is the most difficult part of the whole in my opinion. The perfomer should know exactly each minimum detail.
Could we say that a PC is a demonstration of a self-perfection?

[perfect_pitch]

Could we say that a PC is a demonstration of a self-perfection?

Yes... I believe you could. I like that. It has a nice philosophical Touch.   

[rob47]

Could we say that a PC is a demonstration of a self-perfection?

NO.

[perfect_pitch]

Then what good is a Piano Concerto Performance, if it isn't perfect???

 

[nicolaievich]

with self-perfection I mean the performer has to reach some minimum level of perfection, or if you want... "perfection"

[lostinidlewonder]

I think the hardest thing about playing in a piano concerto is controlling the volume that you project out of the piano and balancing it with the Orchestra. I find when I listen to most 1st timers doing a piano concerto they are way too soft and the orchestra eats them up. I find playing sensitively with an orchestra is much different than playing sensitively solo. Some people try to do it the same way, but it will all crumble away with the variation of control that different orchestras demand from pianist. The only way to improve is through experience playing with orchestras, or very long and tedious rehersals.

[jamie0168]

Honestly, I'm playing my first piano concerto (Mozart's 19th) this semester for a competition. Memorization was the easiest for me...not just my part...but the orchestra's too. The problem I'm having is shaping it melodically. Mozart, like almost all pieces, can go from beautiful, tear-dropping beauty to dull, boring nothing without the right effort put into it. The competition is in 16 days and I'm in the polishing phase. I'm very musical, but I just can't figure out how to make this concerto more beautiful and retain the audience's (or in this case, the judges') attention. Let me know if there are any secrets to Mozart that you know of.

[mschopinliszt]

The most difficult thing about playing a piano concerto is understanding the texture of orchestra vs. soloist...the areas of quiet and knowing where to brazenly return to the patchwork.  It requires an extraordinary amount of memorization beyond the solo performance, as you involve 60+ people this way.  It's an awesome task.  But i like to think that one doesn't go into a concerto performance without a WHOLE lot of forethought abut this subject.  Played Liszt E-flat with university orchestra, as well as St-Saens g minor....with orchestra.... you damn well better know your part, else.....  well....i prefer not to think of the outcome:)  Concertos are more difficult pieces due to the fact that so many rely on you...and you on them....

[stevie]

Then what good is a Piano Concerto Performance, if it isn't perfect???

 

perfect_sonofamotherf*ckingbitch

do you even understand music?

[perfect_pitch]

perfect_sonofamotherf*ckingbitch

do you even understand music?

YES! I do. Thanks for asking.     

[teresa_b]

Honestly, I'm playing my first piano concerto (Mozart's 19th) this semester for a competition. Memorization was the easiest for me...not just my part...but the orchestra's too. The problem I'm having is shaping it melodically. Mozart, like almost all pieces, can go from beautiful, tear-dropping beauty to dull, boring nothing without the right effort put into it. The competition is in 16 days and I'm in the polishing phase. I'm very musical, but I just can't figure out how to make this concerto more beautiful and retain the audience's (or in this case, the judges') attention. Let me know if there are any secrets to Mozart that you know of.

Hi Jamie,

I played this concerto about a year and a half ago with the Chamber Orchestra of Florida!  It's such a great piece, isnt' it?  It is one of 4 Mozart concertos I've done with them.  I am an amateur pianist, but Mozart I can talk about a little.

Are you playing all 3 movements? 

I think you chose a hard one!  The first movement of this is difficult not because of the notes, but because of the monotony that may arise in the piano part if you don't pay close attention to the phrasing and dynamics, and the extreme importance of the orchestra-piano interaction.  Of all 4 that I've played, this movement of K459 is most dependent on the interactive quality. 

Suggestions:  Practice as much as you can with the orchestral accompaniment (NOT a recording--with your teacher on another piano, or whatever).  Then you can hear what's going on and respond.   Keep the tempo "alla breve" i.e., 2/2 not 4/4 as some scores are marked in error.  It must flow along dancingly in 2.  Lots of energy!

Don't forget to make the most of the rising and falling triplet passages--they must go somewhere and not sound mechanical.  Keep your touch very light, but emphasize the "melody" line, i.e., when it is the first notes of the triplets, a little bit. 

Put your heart and soul into the cadenza! 

2nd movement:  The only allegretto Mozart ever put as a second mvt of concerto.  Play it allegretto, NOT andante!  Again, the flow is key.  It will be boring without the constant moving, lilting quality.  Phrasing of course.  The little canons with the orchestra are magical! 

3rd movement:    go wild!  This is Mozart at his best, completely unbuttoned and joyous.  (Hope you've practiced your scales for the last 10 years)  Again, think in whole measures and phrases, don't get bogged down in the notes (ha!), and keep the lightest touch you can in the fast scales, while keeping it dancing and not driving.  the last thing you want is to sound like you're just trying to get to the finish line.  It is a light-hearted piece, though the fugal stuff is sort of pseudo-serious.  But I think Mozart was only bluffing, because he soon gives way to more playfulness.  The coda is all comic opera, so emphasize the dynamics.

For all Mozart, the best touch for the rapid runs is non-legato and very little pedaling--especially on a stage in a  big hall with orchestra, pedaling will obscure all your articulation.  Don't get too precious or delicate--when Mozart says f or ff he means it (not in a Rachmaninoff way, of course, but don't pay too "cautiously"--let it fly!).   

Have loads of fun and good luck!

Teresa

P.S. Listen to some recordings like Perahia's, Brendel (who I think is too driving in 3rd mvt!) and others.

[pianistimo]

was just studying this in class several months ago - and wrote into the last movement several things.  one, is that the last movement is definately in the style of opera buffa.  you have some stretto going on between the instrument and piano at the bottom of the second page.  on the sixth page (haven't numbered measures on this one yet) where the solo begins - you can note that the tune appears nowhere else - so you can really bring it out.  the official sonata rondo actually BEGINS on page 7 at the tutti.  on page 12 - a pianist by the name of 'bilson' was recommended (with english chamber orchestra) to listen to because he adds a cadenza right here for piano before the 'A' theme comes back.

when i go downstairs, i'll get my notebook and read some more stuff i learned in class.  probably, the more you play the piece, the more you will hear things between yourself and the various instruments that you will be able to emulate from each other (tempo, dynamics, phrasing).  a really good performance, imo, is just what lostinidlewonder said, too, about getting someone at the back of the hall to tell you if you are loud enough in the 'piano' and 'pianissimo' sections to hear.  and then, REMEMBER the dynamic levels that you are trying to achieve by adjusting all of them.

i find it really appealing to see a performer enjoying the different instruments of the orchestra and not only paying attention to the conductor, but the instrumentalists when they have solos or important parts. 

[pianistimo]

dear jaime0168,  you've got to listen on amazon for malcom bilson's recording of the k 459.  the tempos are awesome.   it turns the concerto from dull and boring to lively and amazing - and expressing what mozart intended with these tempos.  just listened to it for the first time this morning, myself.

another recommended pianist was pollini.

i think i have in my notes that the first movement has a light accent on beat one, which distinguishes it from a sort of serious movement - to also an opera buffa like movement.  it is lighthearted and shows what mozart was 'into' at the time. 

maybe for piano concertos - the best way to learn them is to read a lot about them.  analyze the form of each movement (and WRITE IT INTO THE SCORE), obviously number ALL THE MEASURES so you can be quick with the orchestra, and make your cadenzas fit the style of the concerto (thankfully the k 459 has it's own - except for the one added by bilson).  imagine there must be transcribers that can transcribe something like that off the cd - or is that plagary to use someone else's cadenza?  maybe slightly modify it?

[jhon]

Although the pianist is the soloist, TEAMWORK with the conductor and orchestra is needed.

[Dazzer]

in other words... if the conductor is sh*t, don't work with him, unless you're feeling nice.