Chopin Ballade 1

[Dazzer]

just quickly.

i tried out the coda of the first ballade. and i'm noticing some difficulties. now, normally i'm fine with pieces of these level, or maybe slightly lower. and i memorised the coda in a night. but i can't play it to speed! and its frustrating cuz i know i can play other things faster.

I realise that my right arm is holding me back ALOT at the 2nd part of the coda (after the 'beats' fall back to the right beats of the measure.) this is the part which gets frustrating. my forearm gets really really tense, and i can't move fluidly.

So... any ideas?

thanks
Dazzer

[kghayesh]

Just don't expect to play it at speed and memorize in one night.
This coda is a deep and hard piece both technically and musically. So, just give it its time and play it many times slowly until you are so comfortable with the fingering.

The main difficulty here is the RH chords jumps. So, you must give great care to the fingering here.

Just it takes some time to master it.
Trust me.

[Dazzer]

like i said. memory is not the problem. i have no problems figuring out the notes. I'm saying there is like a physical barrier preventing me from going forth. Which should not be the case, obviously.

[kghayesh]

Well.... My advice is that you shouldn't rush into playing it at speed. It is really tiring.
Just gradually increase speed day by day for about a week or two and i am sure the results will be good.

[Dazzer]

alright... advise taken i'll try... i admit i'm a little impatient. blegh.

[zheer]

Trust me on this Dazzer, play the coda without the index finger ( ie the 2nd finger ). once you have masted the coda and can play it at speed , add the index finger, and voala.

[zheer]

O yeah the 2nd finger in the RH.

[acha114]

Trust me on this Dazzer, play the coda without the index finger ( ie the 2nd finger ). once you have masted the coda and can play it at speed , add the index finger, and voala.

I'm curious. How does not adding the index finger help in playing the coda?

[quantum]

As for the RH, it's about wrist rotation.  Play RH slowly, and exagerate the wrist rotation between Thumb - Fingers.  Your wrist has to get used to making these movements without undue tensions.  As you increase speed you naturally decrease the amount of rotation - but the idea should always be there.

As for hitting the notes, I like to think of the RH part as moving in an elipse instead of "up 1 8ve, down 1 8ve".  This way you get more fluid motion and there is less jerky changes of direction when the pattern switches octaves quickly. 

Please be patient with the coda, it is difficult and you will thank yourself later that you took time to learn it properly. 

[zheer]

I'm curious. How does not adding the index finger help in playing the coda?

Good point, i should explain myself a little better. Well the LH cause no problem for most people , HOWEVER if we look at bar 216 - 237 i find by simply not adding the index finger makes the RH passage seem very very easy.Dazzer said he feels at the moment a little tense and lacking fluidity. Hence by playaing the coda whithout the index finger this problem is solved, once the coda is masterd without the 2nd finger,  one can then add the index finger and the coda is compete. Its a way of thinking the problem through rather than doing it by hook or by crook. Well it works for me.  

[acha114]

Good point, i should explain myself a little better. Well the LH cause no problem for most people , HOWEVER if we look at bar 216 - 237 i find by simply not adding the index finger makes the RH passage seem very very easy.Dazzer said he feels at the moment a little tense and lacking fluidity. Hence by playaing the coda whithout the index finger this problem is solved, once the coda is masterd without the 2nd finger,  one can then add the index finger and the coda is compete. Its a way of thinking the problem through rather than doing it by hook or by crook. Well it works for me.  

Excuse my ignorance but that section has plenty of 6ths, e.g. Eflat-C, F#-D. It would be impossible for me to play those 6ths without the index finger. I would need to use the index and little finger to play those, hence leaving out the index finger would be impossible.

[zheer]

Excuse my ignorance but that section has plenty of 6ths, e.g. Eflat-C, F#-D. It would be impossible for me to play those 6ths without the index finger. I would need to use the index and little finger to play those, hence leaving out the index finger would be impossible.

Well look its very simple what am saying. If you dont use your RH index finger from bar 216 - 237 all you then play is octaves, yes one note will be missing. Hence once you can play the section very fast and very comfortably, all you then need to do is add the 2nd finger.
        I think i might have a different way at looking at piano playing, hence the confusion.

[acha114]

Well look its very simple what am saying. If you dont use your RH index finger from bar 216 - 237 all you then play is octaves, yes one note will be missing. Hence once you can play the section very fast and very comfortably, all you then need to do is add the 2nd finger.
        I think i might have a different way at looking at piano playing, hence the confusion.

Ah, i guess that makes sense. I'll try that method when I practice. I've been practicing the coda from bar 216-237 with little progress.