How much time? Do you think you know your capacity?

[crazy for ivan moravec]

how much time do you think would you need in order to play at PERFORMANCE LEVEL (say, a Carnegie Hall recital) the ff works:

1. liszt bm sonata -
2. rach 3 -
3. all chopin etudes -
4. brahms PC no. 2 in Bb -
5. Schumann's traumerei from kinderscenen -

i dont mean that you study them altogether, rather, if you were to work on them one by one (and you work on one piece alone, nothing else), how much time would you need for each work?

here's what I THINK is mine (as of my level in playing now):

1. 4 months
2. 8 months
3. 6 months
4. 8 months
5. 2-3 weeks (that was difficult to answer!)

This is just right for me, not so conservative guesses. but i do hope it would happen in the future. i'd be happy with that already.


N.B. For those who have studied and performed some of the works already, you may put in how much time you studied it but indicate it with an asterisk. im trying to get answers which come from intuition, or how much time one believes he/she can do it.

all the best!

clem (crazy for ivan)

[ahmedito]

1. 5-6 months
2. 5-6 months
3. 8-10 months (I haven't played many of these)
4. 6-8 months
5. 3-4 weeks


Most of these, though, I am not good enough to play now. I simply think I would not do them justice at my current level. So:

1. Maybe in 2 years.
2. In 2 years.
3. I could do this one now, but for them ALL to be as good as I'd like Id wait 4-5 more years.
4. 2-3 years.
5. I could this now.

[pianowelsh]

I wouldnt dare. Carnegie is not your average shopping mall!!! you forgot to mention are we playing to an empty hall with sound technitions OR to a house packed with several thousand amateur pianists and music critics and a radio audience!!! BIG DIFFERENCE

[crazy for ivan moravec]

actually, my inclusion of the Carnegie thing is just to give you an idea of how much PERFORMANCE LEVEL at the shortest possible time im talking about.

but yeah, maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to play there hehe, it could either make or break one's career esp when there will be critics and all.

ahmedito, thanks for including the long-term study of these works. i forgot about that.

i personally believe that for me it will take 5 years for rach 3/brahms PC no. 2, 3-4 years for Chopin Etudes, 2 years for the liszt sonata. I would make them really grow in me, perform them in a lot of venues as much as possible, and eventually they'd probably become my lifetime commitment.

[lostinidlewonder]

I always though you had to be invited to play in Carnegie. Unless you play in the foyer.   I would think if you play in a high school concert for instance you would respect it as much as you would playing in any famous concert hall. A performance is a performance after all!

Measuring time needed for mastery over music is always different for each person but in my mind, the 24 Chopin etudes for experienced players probably takes about 1 month  focused attention on each, then another year playing op10 in its entirity, another on the op25 and x months playing all 24 in a sequence you choose for your peformance (going 1,2,3,4 in order is not necessarily a must) until you are satisfied.

My definition of experienced players in this case would be those who are not tied up with the physical nature of the etudes but are much more interested with the sound quality. So if you are spending 1 month considering only the sound production and the memory and physical action are not the issue (although striving for the effortless touch, the most efficient for you to play a passage, is a lifelong exploration), this is good enough.

Perhaps it will take 20 years before the phsyical problems are ironed out, who knows! But if it takes 20 years I think you are practicing it wrongly, someone who is ready to learn the etudes shouldn't really take more than 2 months working out the physical nature and memory of each etude. I think a really good way to study them which Australian Concert Pianist Roger Woodward encouraged me to do was to practice all 24  Etudes and memorise all of them in 2 weeks. It is a tough task but if you are ready for them it will be possible. You will not master them, you may only memorise 90% of the notes, but if you can do this then you can measure if you are ready to play these in their entirity or not.

For the concertos we may learn it first of all by ourselves memorize our own notes, the general procedure. However you must in the end practice playing it with orchestra which is not something we can all call up on demand. We MUST then at least practice it with a second piano. You either have a good teacher who play it for you or a friend who is very good with the piano.

I find because it is hard to get someone to play the second piano for you, this increases the time needed to prepare piano concertos. I would generally say if you don't at least have minimum 20 hours of practice with a second piano you won't be ready. Sometimes you will not be able to find someone capable enough to play the second piano, your hands are tied then! I cringe at this though but really it would be a last resort that you practice playing the concerto with your favorite CD recording of it. This at least gives your brain some experience as to what the sound will be like when you play in your performance.

[Kassaa]

1. liszt bm sonata - My whole life
2. rach 3 - 3 years
3. all chopin etudes - 2 years
4. brahms PC no. 2 in Bb - My whole life
5. Schumann's traumerei from kinderscenen - 10 years.

Not to indicate that I'm a bad pianist ofcourse, but when you want to play in Carnegie, you must strive for perfection, and perfection for let's say, Brahms PC2 is impossible.

[palika dunno]

here's what I THINK is mine (as of my level in playing now):

1. 4 months
2. 8 months
3. 6 months
4. 8 months
5. 2-3 weeks (that was difficult to answer!)

learning the chopin etudes in 6 months  ..
that is about 1 etude in 2 weeks....just think of op. 10 nr. 2 or op. 25 nr. 6 + 11 etc. ....
they are all so *** hard...how do you want to manage that? how long do you practice daily?

[super5james]

It depends it took me 2 months to learn Liszt Funerailles and i took mook me 3 months to learn schubert imprountus op. 90.
What i do is i take piecie and divide it into sections and i learn sections.I accomplish alot in 40 hours of practice a week so.It doesnt take long for me to learn music.

[arensky]

1. liszt bm sonata -
2. rach 3 -
3. all chopin etudes -
4. brahms PC no. 2 in Bb -
5. Schumann's traumerei from kinderscenen -

All times are estimated, but I am drawing on my past experience in preparing big pieces...

1. 10-12 months
2. 9-11 months
3. 18-24 months
4. 9-10 months
5. 7-8 days

[steve jones]

Probably another three life times!

Seriously, Im not looking quite that far ahead just yet. Id like to think that I attempt some of the etudes in a few years. The Rachmaninov I want to learn in the longterm. Maybe 5 years, I cant say?

[crazy for ivan moravec]

learning the chopin etudes in 6 months  ..
that is about 1 etude in 2 weeks....just think of op. 10 nr. 2 or op. 25 nr. 6 + 11 etc. ....
they are all so *** hard...how do you want to manage that? how long do you practice daily?

hmmm... i guess i really don't know myself that much, eh?

maybe 2 years...

although i wouldn't really say that learning it in 6 months is not possible. i guess that would be impossible for me, hehe. i think i have to rethink my calculations.

i know a pianist who learned everything in 2 weeks (wow) because Serkin (her teacher in curtis) told her to do so. but her (cecile licad) talent was considered to be one in a million.

[stevie]

by far the hardest of those is the chopin etudes

the chopin etudes as a whole is harder than either rach3 or brahms 2

they demand absolute technical and musical control in virtually every common pianstic figuration, and some in unqiue figurations like the 10/2 and 25/11 that demand the most extreme ability with the outer fingers.

for me i have never attempted any work of these kind of scopes so i find it hard to say, but let us remember it isnt just about learning the notes...technical and musical perfection is the aim, and that really takes decades, if ever acheived.

[jlh]

I always though you had to be invited to play in Carnegie. Unless you play in the foyer.  

It's just like any other hall... you can play there if you have the cash to rent it.  If you don't, well, then yes you have to be invited.