Winterwind Etude op.25 no.11

[Irock1ce]

Hey guys, i just started this etude today... my teacher made me switch over from op.25 no.1 because of my wrist.. but anyways.. do you guys have any tips about this piece? for any of you thats played it.. it would be great for some feedback.. thx!  

[allchopin]

Your teacher switched you from the #1 Op. 25 to the #11 Op. 25?  Is he/she insane?  Wrist movement is (almost) just as much required in the 11 as in the 1, as well as independent finger agility.  I dont know if you are technically able to play this piece or not, but this is my word of warning: Warning!

[Irock1ce]

thats the thing. read your (almost). and my teacher knows me very well.. so i think she should be able to estimate my skill level? Allchopin, op.25 no.1 is a very freakin hard Etude. Some of the jumps at tempo are insane. Op.25 no.11 fits the hand very well and the jumps are QUITE as insane.. though its still very hard.. and this way i can take a rest on my wrist for a while.

[Bosendorfer_214]

If you think that  25 no1 is " a freakin' hard" etude you ain't seen jack sh*t yet buddy.  Brace yourself.

[Irock1ce]

i know......   op.25 no.6 (the one with the thirds) looked freakin crazy.... Ill take things one step at a time..  

[eddie92099]

If you think that  25 no1 is " a freakin' hard" etude you ain't seen jack sh*t yet buddy.  Brace yourself.

Who wrote "Jack S**t"?
Ed

[Bosendorfer_214]

I did.

And so did you, apparently.

[88_keys]

I really don't understand what your teacher is up to, Irock1ce.

The "Winter wind Etude" is probably the most technical of all Chopin Etudes. Not only it contains some wild skips, but it is also the fastest etude - at 14 melody notes per second!

Let me just say this:

I play Op. 25, No. 1 with relative ease, and I don't even dream of starting the "Winter Wind Etude" in the forseeable future...


Could it be that your teacher refered to a different piece (perhaps Op. 10, No. 11)?

[Emma]

Don't be afraid of the Winter Wind! It is an exciting piece to study, and it is possible to play. If you feel like a challenge, this piece is very rewarding as you get it under your fingers.  

[trunks]

Hey 88_keys,

Ah then the Etude Op.10 No.11 (on extended, double  arpeggios) is about as hard as the Winter Wind, especially for small hands!

Irock1ce,

Practise the RH slowly in different figures and patterns, such as re-grouping each cascade of six notes into three pairs . . . the Alfred Cortot edition that contains suggested preparatory exercises prove to be very effective for this etude and for the entire set of 24 in general. Then again these preparatory exercises must be taken slowly at first, gradually building up speed.

The Winter Wind has to be one of Chopin's most explosively powerful and passionate pieces he ever wrote, definitely way more furious than the Revolution, Op.10 No.12, even more fiery than the codas of Scherzo 1, Op.20 and Scherzo 3, Op.39. A pleasure to play once mastered.

[ilovemusic]

I am trying to play the right hand run, I now I am confused: what fingering should be used. I have 2 editions with different fingerings (Cortot and Alfred), but reading trough the forum I find many more possibilities. What did Chopin himself suggest ? Being an etude, there should be a certain optimal sequince, or does this depend to much on the shape of the hand ? For now, I use Alfred, which is (if I remenber correct)

52413251 etc..

Other  patterns I saw:

5241 3231 
5241 5241
5241 3241

Ok, so there are about 4 of them, but which one to use ?

[trunks]

Experiment on the fingerings yourself and find out which is the best for you. I can guarantee you, there is no absolute best fingering. For each, his own. You can even feel free to device your own.

[bernhard]

Peter HK is absolutely right. Nevertheless where do you start?

Here is Chopin’s fingering (bar 5):

[524132] [524251] [524152] [415241]…

This should give you an idea of the movement: The correct movement is the one for which this fingering becomes easy. Experiment with: forearm rotation, slanting of the fingers/hand (rather than keeping the fingers parallel to the keys), moving the hand forwards and backwards in relation to the black keys, shifting the hand sideways, etc. Once you grasp the movement pattern, by all means change the fingering so that for you it becomes even easier.

Then try the other fingerings. Cortot’s for instance:

[523142] [314231] [524152] [415241]…

implies a quite different movement pattern. You will have to decide which movement pattern (by sticking to a fingering), and only then think about changing the fingering to suit your physicality for that specific movement pattern you selected. So do spend a lot of time on that bar 5 working just on the RH, since once this is decided the rest is pretty much the same (and once you get the movement the fingering will become obvious).

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ted]

I play this one every day or two; I cannot leave it alone and I always love it. It's one of his pieces where the skeletons definitely win the game. It is complete and unequivocal tragedy. There are so many wonderful moments in it, so many ways of playing the many beautiful chord changes. It's also always a thrill to play, especially those two chords before the final cataclysm - it's like a boulder teetering on the edge of a cliff. I have my own thoughts about it, which are likely no worse or better than anybody else's. I like to keep the right hand pretty delicate against the relentless melody in the left. I like to feel a certain ebb and flow, not rubato exactly but more as if the music were breathing. The title seems to me a bit simplistic; I think there's much more going on than the weather.

As to those magnificent chord shifts, initially you wonder why the hell he made them, but then once heard they seem the only things he could have done. Then again, I suppose this is an invariant property of all fine music.

I use an unorthodox physical technique for this piece and, as I am quite sure it wouldn't be the best for most people, I would be wise to leave this aspect to Bernhard and other professionals.

[chromatickler]

Gav does it best. 

[ilovemusic]

Thanks for the advice... The fear I have that once I choose a certain pattern, there may be an other one which is even more suitable. And often a fingering that seems ackward at first suddenly starts to feel natural. But anyway, I'll try a lot of patterns, experimenting is probably not to bad for my fingers anyway. (For the moment, I am only using this measure 5 as an exercise, because it is fun).

(Just a thought:  I really like the Chopin etudes, but I am wondering if this is not the piano equivalent of Malmsteen/Satriani shredding stuff: I sometimes expose non-piano people to them, I they think it is to noisy. )

Joost.