practicing zip technique

[pianistimo]

ok.  yesterday, i had a really good practice session for two hours.  was sight-reading some transcriptions (thanks to you-know-who ) and found that the zip-technique sounded ok in my right hand with chopin - but terrible in the bass (bach transcription) when i had to play a note way down low and then another much higher.  i'm so frustrated i can't reach these large intervals and  yet want to approximate it.  it's harder for me to 'aim' for the next note and it slows me way down.  my left hand is not as speedy as my right and i often try to land it on the next note like an airplane.  do you just have to practice the landings over and over - or do you just move the note closer to the lh or rh and just forget it.  especially if there is a lot of this in the piece?

*btw, as i understand the zip-technique - it is hitting a lower note of a wide interval - and then sort of skimming the tops of the keys sideways to efficiently hit the high note quickly - so that it sounds like you have played the notes together (esp. if held by pedal).

[fra ungdomsdagene]

it's harder for me to 'aim' for the next note and it slows me way down.  my left hand is not as speedy as my right and i often try to land it on the next note like an airplane.  do you just have to practice the landings over and over - or do you just move the note closer to the lh or rh and just forget it.  especially if there is a lot of this in the piece?

A good method is to practice the landings by first reaching for the note and only after you've reached it you play it. As a matter of fact even fast jumps are not play note ---> jump and play the next note but play note ---- > reach for the next note ---- > play the note, only it's so fast you can't see it but slow down a concert video and that's what you will see. In other words you practice two motions: sideways or horizontal motion of reaching for a different spot in the keyboard and downward or vertical motion of depressing the key you've reached for.

You practice the landings slowly at first. When you will play them at speed it will sounds like a single movement but the landings will be so accurate that you won't be able to miss the right note even if you want to!

2nd octave F - 4th octave A

4/4  90 bpm

1beat - play F

2beat - hold down F

3beat - slide and reach for A

4beat - wait on A without playing it


1beat - play A

2beat - hold down A

3beat - slide and reach for F

4beat - wait on F without playing it

and once again play F and so on

Fra

[pianistimo]

thank you.  i will try what you wrote...it looks like you only let go of the note that is played first until you can't stretch any further?

if i understood my teacher correctly, he was showing me minimal stretching of the hand. and a very fast movement sideways (which i CAN do with chopin in the rh) and it keeps my hand relaxed. also, if i used this technique as slowly as i wanted in the left hand, my thumb would be able to play straight down on the second note.

but, as i previously learned to stretch - maybe a combination of the two ideas?? letting go - before you stretch too much (terrible angle to play second note) yet - not 'accordianing' the hand closed as much as i have been.  also, i really like your idea of breaking down the movements that one does into beats.  the faster i get (doing your idea on my computer desk) is a sort of staccato bounce (hand closed, pounces out with stretch) off the first note to the second.

i know this is probably carrying it too far - but am experimenting as to what will get me there the fastest and most accurate - AND makes the thumb be able to hit the top note easily.  black notes are fairly easy because you can hit them at an angle and not hit the neighboring notes (as with white notes)

[fra ungdomsdagene]

thank you.  i will try what you wrote...it looks like you only let go of the note that is played first until you can't stretch any further?

Actually you should be able practicing this way to eventually connect the two notes as if they were legato without any stretching just the sideways jump but so accurate and fast that it may sound like a chord (using the pedal) or very legato without pedal.
So while you hold the key down waiting to land on the next key you don't stretch your hand just focus mentally on sliding and landing on the next note without playing it.

Fra

[pianistimo]

ok.  i'll try that.  i hadn't thought of visualizing it first.  i kind of jump for an approximate distance (as i gauge the interval).  sometimes i'm right and other times not.  thanks!  i will mentally gauge it.  it's easier hands apart.  but, when my right hand plays at the same time - that's when it becomes difficult again.  maybe subconciously i've always favored my right hand and read music that way.

[quantum]

On a side note.  When you have those single bass note + chord jumps in the LH. 

When studying a chopin piece, my teacher noticed that after I played the bass note, I recoiled my fingers then stretched them out again to play the chord.  My teacher said that continually stretching and bringing in your fingers tires the hand (try it away from the piano).  So it is better to have the hand constanly in an open stretched position when playing these types of passages. 

So when you hit that single bass note, your hand should already be in the formation of the following chord.  Therefore there is no need to shift fingers in the middle of the jump, which may also distract from your concentration of aiming the jump accurately. 

[pianistimo]

that's great advice for a chord following one note.  in the particular bach transcription, i'm just playing a low note and then a high note with the thumb.  i forget the interval - but it's well over an octave and a half.  as you said with the chord approach, if i leave my hand slightly open, the thumb can still comfortably play the note and not be at some sort of wierd angle (and not hit other white notes surrounding it).

what do you think about leaving your hand in just a comfortable open position about as large as a root position chord (but not stretched?)  would this allow a person to play in a more relaxed manner - longer?  if i 'bounce' off of the first note with the pinky - i can zip without a major stretch - if i really 'bounce' (expend energy at the moment i leave the key and not between the notes).

[pianistimo]

somehow, today, this wasn't so hard.  i started mentally aiming, and really focusing more on the left hand (and the right was ok).  the second note target of the lh became more of a n easy landing when i looked at it directly rather than guessing approximately and just trying a hit and miss approach.  i think, for me, sightreading a piece of this sort is different than almost having it memorized.  i can focus on the lh now and look at the note without losing my momentum.

also, i've been playing the lowest note slightly ahead of time and then focusing on the higher note in relation to the chord and sound that i want on the beat.  if i know i'm playing an A chord - then i just quick look to make sure my lh is playing the A.  I don't know why i'm even bothering to say this basic stuff that everyone probably knows - but somehow, i think i'm making a breakthrough in my left hand technique.

i'd like to try a left handed piece sometime.  probably not ravel's concerto - but something easier.  any ideas?

[ted]

I don't know if you like the idiom but after playing a few Waller solos, for example the Posnak transcriptions, manipulation of left hand stretches in anything else will probably seem very easy.

[pianistimo]

thank you for the idea.  it probably would help- and i enjoy the idiom.