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Topic: Beethoven Pathetique  (Read 3649 times)

Offline guitarwolf

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Beethoven Pathetique
on: September 24, 2003, 04:18:33 AM
My question is why does the player play the left hand the way he does on several recordings for the 2nd page?it only shows u hitting the C notes in pairs but he hits em about 4 times a bar. Is there something I am missing it has me really confused, plz someone help me out. I am talking about all the bars after the first, since it shows u to hit it 4 times there, the rest only 2.

Offline allchopin

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Re: Beethoven Pathetique
Reply #1 on: September 24, 2003, 07:36:36 AM
Honestly, I dont know why Beethoven (and many others) wrote like this, because it really has no significant difference than the other pages' notation.  What it is is a tremolo- you "trill" netween the two given notes (in this case the two half notes) at the given note value (the parallel bars).  Thus, it has the same effect as just wrioting out eafh note.

Oh, thats why he did it, hes laaazzyyy... ooohhhh....
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline guitarwolf

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Re: Beethoven Pathetique
Reply #2 on: September 24, 2003, 04:34:35 PM
OK makes more sense but still, how would you know to trill those instead of just holding the notes out as half notes? Is there anything that tells u this or it just sounds right this way and not the other?

Offline rachfan

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Re: Beethoven Pathetique
Reply #3 on: September 24, 2003, 06:40:10 PM
One clue is the fast tempo, allegro di molto e con brio which is further intensified by cut time.  Urtext editions correctly show the first "demonstration" measure with 8th notes in the bass followed by halfs thereafter (no doubt lazy-man notation as stated above).  Heavily edited versions (which are not nearly as accurate, useful or desirable as urtext editions) often carry the 8ths throughout that section to clear up the ambiguity.  The effect, as suggested earlier, is like an even tremolo during execution.  This is further reinforced by the performance practice over the last couple of hundred years or so.   To make direction on execution more specific, Beethoven could have use the term "simile" after the first measure or "sempre tremando" at the juncture of the second measure.  He could have, but....
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline Hmoll

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Re: Beethoven Pathetique
Reply #4 on: September 24, 2003, 09:22:03 PM
Quote
OK makes more sense but still, how would you know to trill those instead of just holding the notes out as half notes? Is there anything that tells u this or it just sounds right this way and not the other?


Another clue: Although the head of the note looks like a half note, the flags are connected. This is a typical tremolo notation. The head of the note shows the duration of the tremolo - half note - and the flag indicates the length of each note within the tre molo - eighth note. Starting in the second measure of Allegro Di molto e con brio section there are two tremolo "sets" notated for the left hand. They are both half notes, so the tremolos take up both beats of the measure - it's in 2/2 time.
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Offline rachfan

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Re: Beethoven Pathetique
Reply #5 on: September 25, 2003, 04:29:22 AM
Hi Hmoll,

Excellent point!  I should have picked up on that myself.   I believe I became sidetracked by the departure in notation between the first and second measures, which fooled my eye.  Nice catch!
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.
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