Favorite Sorabji Piano Piece

[ahinton]

How short?

LOL

Ian or John? 

You'd have to guess but, if you are in need of some kind of clue to help you do so, you need only bear in mind that I wrote "ample verifiable evidence".

Best,

Alistair

[john11inc]

How short?

LOL

Ian or John?  

Considering the amount of evidence to Ian's repertoire, he would be speaking of claims I made to a rather impressive, yet false and obviously questionable, repertoire I purported to have when I was younger.  That is, assuming he is speaking of either Ian or me, as your question assumes.  Unimportantly, I am a pianist, and my repertoire is fairly decent, although no, it does not include many works I might have, in lack of better terms, lied about it containing long ago.

I am exceeeeeeeeeeedingly drunk at the moment, hence my openness regarding the subject and any, possible errors in spelling or syntax (but worry not, for it was in the effort to build my confidence to participate in a fivesome [sure. . . a five-way piano ensemble, if you prefer] which involved two guys so adorable it made me question whether or not I should feel like a pedophile, despite their legal age, I assure you!)


Oh.  Inappropriate!  But then again, this is a thread about Sorabji, so. . .

[ahinton]

Considering the amount of evidence to Ian's repertoire, he would be speaking of claims I made to a rather impressive, yet false and obviously questionable, repertoire I purported to have when I was younger.  That is, assuming he is speaking of either Ian or me, as your question assumes.  Unimportantly, I am a pianist, and my repertoire is fairly decent, although no, it does not include many works I might have, in lack of better terms, lied about it containing long ago.

I am exceeeeeeeeeeedingly drunk at the moment, hence my openness regarding the subject and any, possible errors in spelling or syntax (but worry not, for it was in the effort to build my confidence to participate in a fivesome [sure. . . a five-way piano ensemble, if you prefer] which involved two guys so adorable it made me question whether or not I should feel like a pedophile, despite their legal age, I assure you!)

Your allegedly inebriated state shows not at all in the sobriety of what you have written above.

Oh.  Inappropriate!  But then again, this is a thread about Sorabji, so. . .

Would it be too much to request that those three dots be replaced at least by the remainder of that sentence?

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

I had no faith in his existence as a genuine pianistic entity for a long time (didn't help that there was a point when his webpage played not actual piano, but some midi piano file!).

I do recall him (or some alter ego) posting details of a recital to be given in Toledo. I managed to find this online: https://fundacionculturaydeporte.com/pdf/programa_general.pdf (page 12)

Looks official enough, obviously doesn't prove he materialised and gave the concert.

Having looked through the man's website I'd say that, if all the composers and works quoted there are an actual and active reprtoire, he'a having a repertoire that would be big for TWO pianists. And some things look a bit unrealistic, I think (the complete Rubinstein concerto's??). And then there are several big recording projects, of which, as far as I can tell, nothing so far has materialised. Add to that the fact that there are just three vids, and precisely one positive comment leads me to suspect that he may advertise more than he is actually doing. I'm not saying he isn't a pianist, or even a good one (couldn't comment there), but I think the whole things is too good to be true. Also, the rather ubiquitous "donate" buttons are a bit suspect I think. So I would be interested what, if any, answer John11inch gets, sobering or otherwise....

all bets,
gep

[djealnla]

What about this video?

[john11inc]

His response:

I will be happy to add works I choose by Finissy, Boulez, Stockhausen and Sorabji in a recital if you find a sponsor for this project. And I'll be happy to play it in your city if you have public for such composers.
Of course, you must keep in mind the sponsor must to pay the travel (starting and back from/to Brazil), hotel, food, locomotion in the city, everything for two persons (me and my wife) and my fee, of course.

But I can't waste time making videos just because someone I don't know (or people from forum) want me to play "for free" a number of pieces which maybe I'll play not more than 5 times in my life as there are not too much people interested in such repertoire. I'm sorry, but you must understand this.

On the other hand, I have been contacted by several people who already sponsored my recitals and I never had a bad word, In march I'll be playing, here in Brazil a repertoire full of Brazilian Sonates (from XX Century), including Mignone, Guarnieri, Lacerda, Lorenzo Fernandez and the Villa-lobos' Rudepoema. And in 2 months I'll be making a tour in Australia where I'm going to play in several places and I must to play several virtuoso pieces from Liszt to Cziffra (more than 40 compositions, no repeated pieces)

But concerning these, in my sincere opinion, "waste-of-time-considerations" like:
- "these are the most difficult works by Mr.X..." I really can't say nothing more than:
- "It is a subjective and trivial comment".
And by the way, I don't play this or that work because it is the most difficult, I play because I choose the one I most like from composer's list.
So, for example, concerning Alkan, you can wait for my interpretation of his Symphony, and, IF a sponsor ask me for this, the solo Concerto.

Concerning Finnissy, I must admit I was very disapointed when studying his compositions, specially his Song No.9, as it is FULL of mistakes in its rhythm, and I'm not sure if he really cares for what he is writing or not.

Opus Archimagicum is really in my plans, together with all Sorabji Sonatas, but first I need to find someone who will be able to pay for this huge project. I have family and, believe or not, I must to eat, and only then I can continue my studies on the piano; you understand?

I don't know what are your thoughts and possibilities, but if you want to test my capacity, you have to give me the conditions for such thing.

Actually I don't understand why must I play Boulez, Finissy and Stockhausen, to prove something If i'm already playing virtuoso stuff in youtube.

Tell me sincerly, are you ready to play sight reading my version of Ride of the Walkyries with your left hand? If you can play this or my etudes sight reading then I must be wrong and I must to record very soon the videos of Boulez Sonata and etc etc...


lol

[djealnla]

His response:

I will be happy to add works I choose by Finissy, Boulez, Stockhausen and Sorabji in a recital if you find a sponsor for this project. And I'll be happy to play it in your city if you have public for such composers.
Of course, you must keep in mind the sponsor must to pay the travel (starting and back from/to Brazil), hotel, food, locomotion in the city, everything for two persons (me and my wife) and my fee, of course.

But I can't waste time making videos just because someone I don't know (or people from forum) want me to play "for free" a number of pieces which maybe I'll play not more than 5 times in my life as there are not too much people interested in such repertoire. I'm sorry, but you must understand this.

On the other hand, I have been contacted by several people who already sponsored my recitals and I never had a bad word, In march I'll be playing, here in Brazil a repertoire full of Brazilian Sonates (from XX Century), including Mignone, Guarnieri, Lacerda, Lorenzo Fernandez and the Villa-lobos' Rudepoema. And in 2 months I'll be making a tour in Australia where I'm going to play in several places and I must to play several virtuoso pieces from Liszt to Cziffra (more than 40 compositions, no repeated pieces)

But concerning these, in my sincere opinion, "waste-of-time-considerations" like:
- "these are the most difficult works by Mr.X..." I really can't say nothing more than:
- "It is a subjective and trivial comment".
And by the way, I don't play this or that work because it is the most difficult, I play because I choose the one I most like from composer's list.
So, for example, concerning Alkan, you can wait for my interpretation of his Symphony, and, IF a sponsor ask me for this, the solo Concerto.

Concerning Finnissy, I must admit I was very disapointed when studying his compositions, specially his Song No.9, as it is FULL of mistakes in its rhythm, and I'm not sure if he really cares for what he is writing or not.

Opus Archimagicum is really in my plans, together with all Sorabji Sonatas, but first I need to find someone who will be able to pay for this huge project. I have family and, believe or not, I must to eat, and only then I can continue my studies on the piano; you understand?

I don't know what are your thoughts and possibilities, but if you want to test my capacity, you have to give me the conditions for such thing.

Actually I don't understand why must I play Boulez, Finissy and Stockhausen, to prove something If i'm already playing virtuoso stuff in youtube.

Tell me sincerly, are you ready to play sight reading my version of Ride of the Walkyries with your left hand? If you can play this or my etudes sight reading then I must be wrong and I must to record very soon the videos of Boulez Sonata and etc etc...


lol

Overall quite humorous, but anyway, I managed to find this with Google, it seems to be a reliable source (Google Translator is helpful as always ):

https://www.movimento.com/mostraconteudo.asp?mostra=2&escolha=5&codigo=5202

[djealnla]

I don't know what are your thoughts and possibilities, but if you want to test my capacity, you have to give me the conditions for such thing.

Play Chopin's Op. 10 No. 2 as fast as Wunder or Rudenko and then we will take you seriously.

[djealnla]

Concerning Finnissy, I must admit I was very disapointed when studying his compositions, specially his Song No.9, as it is FULL of mistakes in its rhythm, and I'm not sure if he really cares for what he is writing or not.

Perhaps he butchers Finnissy like this:

[thalbergmad]

Perhaps he butchers Finnissy like this:

Thanks, that is extremely funny.

Thal

[mephisto]

For people who actually like music, and don't care much about the opinions of narcissists, may I recommend that you listen the 1st Sonata and the pastiche on a hindu merchant song. Both pieces are recorded by Marc Andre Hamelin.

The soundscape is a bit like late Scriabin, but obviously different.

[john11inc]

His next response:

I stop my work for answering every and all e-mails I receive so let's be practical
I'm not planning to spend time taking with you about what do you understand about piano technique, but being a professional pianist and composer as I'm, I would think you must hear something interesting I have to tell you.

I'm a great fan of virtuoso and technical works, like you seems to be, and I can tell you there is no "technical elements" in the music by Finnissy, Stockhausen, Boulez, etc. because there is no "finger-thinking" or "wrist-thinking" or similar things.
The quality of their music is not based in piano techniques, it is based in composition techniques and these things are very different
And believe me, it's not MY opinion, it is what it is, and I do'nt think it is necessary to explain you why a chair is called "chair".
So I think you probably made a confusion on it.
Of course, you may think these composers are difficult to memorize, and then I say you are right
Concerning Finnissy pieces, if you have a good ear, listen to Finnissy and Ian Pace plaing the same works, you will see they does not play the same notes. So it's not about technique. I spent lots of time studing the composition methods by Finnissy and I can tell you for sure he is not thinking in piano techniques.
You can find mathematical problems in rhythm and strange structures, nothing more.

Anyway you can enjoy his music more than Liszt music, but is ridiculous to say his music is "more technically difficult" than a "Reminiscences of Don Juan"
If you still disagree, all I can tell you is "study piano and composition for some years and lets talk later"
Today is easy to say "I like Stockhausen & Finnissy", but not too easy understand the construction of their music, I study seriouly everything in front of me, and I fear to waste time with people who don't do that. Keep in mind the taste is an enemy of art
I hope you understand what I mean

Concerning the score of my Ride of the Walkyries, no PDFs by internet, please, this is my work, but, if we meet one day I'll like to see you sight reading this score for sure. You must be a grat pianist, very courageous or mad, Marc-Andre Hamelin gave up sight reading my etudes in Germany and said it was impossible, anyway I proved him he was wrong.


Here's what I said to him:


I hope I'm not pulling you away from something important, but don't worry about verifying anything. I'm sure your conjecture that Finnissy's Solo Piano Concerto No. 4 is easier than Liszt's Reminiscences de Don Juan will satisfy people's curiosity more than satisfactorily. I happen to be good friends with Mr. Pace, and at least moderate friends with Mr. Hamelin and Mr. Finnissy (as well as many pianists who play Finnissy's works). The next time I talk with them I'll be sure to see what they think your of comments, as I find they are in contradiction with those of most people I speak to on this subject.

Regardless of what people may think of your repertoire based on this conversation (which I have been making public), I'm sure people will walk away with a disinterest in you that is regardless to your alleged pianism.


PS- take a look at my channel sometime! I'm sure you'll find a lot of music you've never heard of and might want to learn.

[john11inc]

His final say on the matter:

John,
Please don't waste my time, I'm too busy
if you like to make gossip, it's your problem, not mine.
And if you want to make people deslike my music and concerts, go ahead, I don't care for what ridiculous people like you think, I have better things to do than contacting and bother artists and try to make gossip between them.

You will not make me to say you are right because of your threats.
You love to mention music by composers like Finnissy, but you don't know one note of his music and wants to teach the world about what is technicaly difficult, boy, use your time reading books, and not boring artists by e-mail, if you are so childish and NEED to argue, go to a forum and spend (waste, in my opinion) your day, not mine.

Concerning making the messages public, you probably never heard about ethics, and it's not strange, you must be one of these who love classical music but never read a book in your life. But keep in mind I can open and internacional process agaisnt the forum you post these texts, so you will give terrible problems to your "friends".

So, for the moment all I can tell you is a big [EXPLETIVE] YOU and GO TO [EXPLETIVE], or like people use to say in your country, KISS MY [EXPLETIVE].
I have nothing more to read from you and nothing more to write to you, so I'll block your messages from now.

With deep despise
Artur

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[ahinton]

I really cannot help but wonder to what extent (if at all) this tiresome exchange of correspondence related here has any practical connection to the subject of any forum member's "Favourite Sorabji Piano Piece", particularly as Artur Cimirro is not actually a member here (at least as far as I know).

Best,

Alistair

[djealnla]

9at

I have no knowledge of this word.

[ahinton]

I have no knowledge of this word.

Nor I (see corrected typo above). I presume, nevertheless, that you get my drift here...

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

Stop ruining this thread!

[ahinton]

Stop ruining this thread!

To whom are you addressing this? I have personally expressed reservations about parts of it already on the grounds that certain posts within it appear to offer little or no information that is directly germane to the thread topic.

Best,

Alistair

[djealnla]

Deleted

[djealnla]

Deleted

[djealnla]

https://www.recordsinternational.com/cd.php?cd=04M065

Has anyone here heard this recording? I'll order it from Records International pretty soon and am almost beside myself with impatience.

[ahinton]

https://www.recordsinternational.com/cd.php?cd=04M065

Has anyone here heard this recording? I'll order it from Records International pretty soon and am almost beside myself with impatience.

Ever heard the phrase "best kept secret"? No, even I've not yet heard it (although I did attend her performance of the work in NYC back in 2004) but expect to do so very soon!

Best,

Alistair

[djealnla]

Deleted

[alscribjiani]

Mine is "Sequentia cyclica super Dies Irae". It´s simply epic! And I didn´t played most of the variations, only from 1st to the eighth. I see why Sorabji considered it as one of his best works.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

We obviously need someone with both a high level of technique and a facility for rapid learning to help getting more Sorabji out there.

Yuja Wang sounds like a shoo-in.

[fftransform]

Is that big Nocturne that was dedicated to you, Alistair, gonna get played any time soon?  Is it a decent piece?

[ahinton]

Is that big Nocturne that was dedicated to you, Alistair, gonna get played any time soon?  Is it a decent piece?

If you mean Symphonic Nocturne, its score has been typeset and the piece recorded by Lukas Huisman who gave one partial performance of it followed by its complete world première in Ghent, Belgium in 2015 followed by a complete performance in Den Bosch, Netherlands the following year.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

How about taking a step on the way to a much needed and welcome resuscitation of the thread topic by throwing into its mix that Sorabji declared his 1940 piece Gulistān and his 1948-49 Sequentia Cyclica super Dies Iræ to be his finest works for the piano (the former has had three recordings and the latter one, with Jonathan Powell having recorded both) - and this in mid-1988 shortly before his death aged 96, so a long time after he had written them.

Many years earlier, he described one of his most frequently played piano pieces Fantaisie Espagnole (1919) an "insipid baby piece" yet, some six decades after completing it, I turned up at his homr for a pre-arranged visit but waited outside as I could hear him practising it!

Some of his piano works have received considerably more performances than others and by considerably more pianists than others; only a few of them remain to receive their premières.

[thalbergmad]

I actually escaped to the pub halfway through a performance of the OC. As much to do with the bloody horrid acoustics as the music.
My favourite piece is "perfumed garden" or whatever it is called.

Thal.

[ahinton]

I actually escaped to the pub halfway through a performance of the OC. As much to do with the bloody horrid acoustics as the music.

I believe that I know where that was!

My favourite piece is "perfumed garden" or whatever it is called.

Yes; its title proper is Le Jardin Parfumé, it dates from 1923, was published soon afterwards and was the only piece that Sorabji himself ever broadcast on BBC; that was in 1930 and drew compliments from Delius. There have been at least three recordings of it far more recently, one of which, by Jonathan Powell, has been made from his own typeset edition of the score which he prepared from the copy publication and copy manuscript.

Nice to see a response to the topic!

All best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I actually escaped to the pub halfway through a performance of the OC. As much to do with the bloody horrid acoustics as the music.
My favourite piece is "perfumed garden" or whatever it is called.

Thal

OC, though still one of Sorabji's best known works (or at least his best knwon about), is by no means the most approachable of his larger scale ones. It's the only one that contains not just one but four fugues, of increasing complexity. His three movement Piano Sonata No.4 from just before it and his nine movement Toccata seconda from a few years after it, although each is little more than half the size of OC, are arguably far easier to absorb - but then in some ways so is Seqentia Cyclica from the late 1940s, despite its near 8½ hour duration.

All best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

If only he had done a Sorabji medley, the world would have been a better place 

[ahinton]

If only he had done a Sorabji medley, the world would have been a better place 

!!!

[ahinton]

I actually escaped to the pub halfway through a performance of the OC. As much to do with the bloody horrid acoustics as the music.
My favourite piece is "perfumed garden" or whatever it is called.

Thal

Just out of curiosity, have you by chance listened to any of Jonathan Powell's recording of Sorabji's Sequentia Cyclica super Dies Iræ (Piano Classics, PCL10206)? There is a reason why I ask you about this in particular...

All best,

Alistair